Attack Deflected

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Norrath » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:21 am

No idea. Most likely it doesnt' affect it at all, and it'll be something we'll have to deal with. :?
Image
Image
User avatar
Norrath
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Denmark

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:43 pm

Ok, I just soloed Anachranos 3 times. Between shr, hotr, judgements and AS, not one parry, dodge, deflect or even a miss. This is with 9 exp (talents and human) and zero hit rating.

I suspect he may be some sort of weird mob with no attack table.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Mindrak » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:50 pm

ziggyunderslashone wrote:I spent two hours attacking level 80 elite Niffelem Frost Giants with a premade beta paladin, spamming judgement, hotr and shr whenever available.

There wasn't a deflect in the entire log. The only time I've seen it was attacking the level 80 and boss target dummies (which sadly seem to have dissapeared) with a level 72 paladin. I'm starting to think its a glance mechanism.

Does anyone have evidence to the contrary? Are we seeing it in 5 mans on 80 elites? In naxx on bosses?

Edit: This evening, I will mostly be assualting Anachronos.


I noticed a deflect on PTR this morning in SMV while fighting swarms of stuff in path of conquest. Only 2 of the 3 mobs my HotR were hitting were in melee range.

One possible solution that fits my experience and your data is that deflects only occur if the target is outside of melee range. Either that or I misread it because I was fighting so many mobs.
Mindrak
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:12 am

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:55 pm

10/8 23:22:25.562 SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000000E3913,"Sephs",0x511,0xF1300072BF0017B4,"Stormforged Iron Giant",0x10a48,53595,"Hammer of the Righteous",0x2,DODGE
10/8 23:32:02.359 SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000000E3913,"Sephs",0x511,0xF130007506000D39,"Tundra Ram",0x10a48,53595,"Hammer of the Righteous",0x2,DODGE
10/8 23:34:27.937 SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000000E3913,"Sephs",0x511,0xF1300072BF0017AC,"Stormforged Iron Giant",0x10a48,53595,"Hammer of the Righteous",0x2,DODGE

10/8 23:24:21.484 SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000000E3913,"Sephs",0x511,0xF1300072BF0017B0,"Stormforged Iron Giant",0x10a48,53595,"Hammer of the Righteous",0x2,DEFLECT

So far Judgements, Avengers (smaller sample size there) and ShR have only missed. I'll keep going for a hotr parry, trying to decide what sort of sample size could be considered evidence against.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:10 pm

In 3+ months of play on beta i saw only HotR deflected, never seen that on any other skill.

I have no idea of if expertise reduces deflect chance, if it affects atk speed, and i honestly can't care less, i'm not going to want to close deflect-gib topics after having had to let people understand that parry gib on paladins is a myth.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13432
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Selinaria » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:16 pm

Worldie wrote:In 3+ months of play on beta i saw only HotR deflected, never seen that on any other skill.

I have no idea of if expertise reduces deflect chance, if it affects atk speed, and i honestly can't care less, i'm not going to want to close deflect-gib topics after having had to let people understand that parry gib on paladins is a myth.


QFT. I can say for sure I have seen less deflections overall since hitting 23 expertise on beta ( <3 Glyph of Seal of Vengeance) but I wouldn't bank on that as a certainty by any means.

Either it does reduce deflections and expertise is better or it doesn't and expertise is still fairly decent ( + present on a lot of gear so you are gonna get it if you really want it or not).

I really wouldn't sweat over the deflection issue or they parry hasted attack issue that is non-existent.
Selinaria was suddenly surrounded by a gang of sharks, a cracked bat as her only protection!
Image
User avatar
Selinaria
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 am
Location: Burlington,Ontario, Canada

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:27 am

As stated above, its not parry. It's a 4th absolute avoidance result on the attack table.

If it had a parry haste mechanic (not entirely sure how we're immune to mobs attacking faster, but different topic), it would presumably be called parry rather than deflect.

The stated function of expertise is to reduce dodge and parry. It may be that it reduces non miss absolute avoidance, but until I find (or make!) some good evidence, as I see it that it falls outside the stated definition.

Curiouser and curiouser.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:35 am

Tecnically, it's a "magic parry", since the % changes seemb to be close enough.

Practically i have no idea if it shares anything with parry other than %, and i don't care either.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13432
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:42 am

Worldie wrote:Tecnically, it's a "magic parry", since the % changes seemb to be close enough.

A common percentage doesn't make it the same thing. If it had parries percentage, parrys haste mechanic and was an absolute avoidance, it would say "Parry".

As it doesn't, we need to stop comparing them.
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:52 am

Yes, that is the two points.

If it is magic parry, do they gain haste?
If it is magic parry, will expertise help for sure?
Sarkan-ZdC
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:00 am

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:11 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:
Worldie wrote:Tecnically, it's a "magic parry", since the % changes seemb to be close enough.

A common percentage doesn't make it the same thing. If it had parries percentage, parrys haste mechanic and was an absolute avoidance, it would say "Parry".

As it doesn't, we need to stop comparing them.

That's why i used commas when i said "magic parry".

As in, shares the % with parry, but apparently nothing else.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13432
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:13 am

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:Yes, that is the two points.

If it is magic parry, do they gain haste?
If it is magic parry, will expertise help for sure?

Why would it be magic parry? What about it suggests it is magic parry? If magic parry had all the same rules as magic parry, why not call it "parry" and save time? Hotr has dodge and miss, why not Reflect and "Magic Dodge"

Someone made a comparison to another pure avoidance statistic and people seem to have made all these conclusions without evidence or analysis.

I'm not denying the possibility of it being "Magic Parry" or "Magic Dodge", but until theres a compelling reason to believe otherwise I think we should stick to "deflect"
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:17 am

Because it shares the % with parry, as in 10%ish on bosses, and 5% on same level mobs, and a mob who can deflect cannot parry.

Hence, it's the magic version of parry.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13432
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:23 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:I'm not denying the possibility of it being "Magic Parry" or "Magic Dodge", but until theres a compelling reason to believe otherwise I think we should stick to "deflect"


Well, if our Hammer sees:

Miss
Dodge
Deflect
Deflect
Deflect

(and this is what people are seeing), then you can rule out dodge and miss. Nobdody ever saw a parry. But we do see Deflect. Deflect is higher then Miss and Dodge, just like Parry is a lot higher. 10%-15% depending on youre Raid Boss).

That for me is enough to say it is magic parry. Or parry of a ranged attack.

BUT, I still want to know what expertise does to this. I mean, one could try that with a Death Knight in Duel.

Hit him with a 1 DPS Weapon and the Hammer using 0 (or close as possible to zero) expertise.

Make like 1k attacks

Then go all out with expertise. Items, Talent, Glyphe, Gems. Go as high as possible

Make like 1k attacks

Now you should see very very fast if you see a difference in deflected hits.
Sarkan-ZdC
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:00 am

Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:26 am

Worldie wrote:Because it shares the % with parry, as in 10%ish on bosses, and 5% on same level mobs, and a mob who can deflect cannot parry.

The only evidence I've seen for any of those points is anecdotal is all I'm saying.

Plus the nomenclature is confusing people. I'm seeing a future where I'm explaining that "it's sort of parry but different"
User avatar
ziggyunderslashone
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:33 am

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest