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Postby Pious » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:09 am

I don't see how being level 80 changes the fact that we can hit the following instant cast attacks ad infinitum with Judgements of the Wise:

Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Judgement of x
Hammer of Wrath (if below 35%)

along with passively occurring -

Auto-attack
Seal procs
Consecration ticks

I haven't played as Warrior/Rogue/Deathknight - but are they also able to spam rotations like these without ever worrying about rage/energy/runic power?

Don't get me wrong, I love the changes. But I can see how others will be easily swayed into taking up the "nefr Pala" chant until they actually do.
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:46 am

Trust me when I say , ret palas can be beaten BADLY if players have a brain , and besides people have specs that are INCOMPLETE now , at 80 things will be ALOT diferent , also add the fact people will get new spells at 80 , what will ret palas get? squat
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Postby Pious » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:50 am

I'll take your word for it - although I doubt I'll have the time to play WoW anymore after today :(
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Postby Andox » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:50 am

The thing is that we can dump all our talents in one tree, other classes still need talents in different trees. Maybe a +crit talent in another tree, some damage multiplier somewhere else and stuff.
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Postby fizikz » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:57 am

i get disconnected as soon as i try to connect to a server... anyone else having this problem?
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Postby Obrimos » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:07 pm

Pious wrote:I don't see how being level 80 changes the fact that we can hit the following instant cast attacks ad infinitum with Judgements of the Wise:

Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Judgement of x
Hammer of Wrath (if below 35%)

along with passively occurring -

Auto-attack
Seal procs
Consecration ticks

I haven't played as Warrior/Rogue/Deathknight - but are they also able to spam rotations like these without ever worrying about rage/energy/runic power?

Don't get me wrong, I love the changes. But I can see how others will be easily swayed into taking up the "nefr Pala" chant until they actually do.


Rogues can SS every 2 seconds, at least, if they're combat. They can Hemo a little faster if they're lucky.

DKs strike lot. All of their attacks are instant and runes refresh every...2 seconds?

Warriors are all about getting on a roll. Once they start hitting fast, yes, they never stop.

Shammies also never stop.

It's normal for melee DPS to just keep going and going and going and going.
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Postby fizikz » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:15 pm

Obrimos wrote:
Pious wrote:I don't see how being level 80 changes the fact that we can hit the following instant cast attacks ad infinitum with Judgements of the Wise:

Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Judgement of x
Hammer of Wrath (if below 35%)

along with passively occurring -

Auto-attack
Seal procs
Consecration ticks

I haven't played as Warrior/Rogue/Deathknight - but are they also able to spam rotations like these without ever worrying about rage/energy/runic power?

Don't get me wrong, I love the changes. But I can see how others will be easily swayed into taking up the "nefr Pala" chant until they actually do.


Rogues can SS every 2 seconds, at least, if they're combat. They can Hemo a little faster if they're lucky.

DKs strike lot. All of their attacks are instant and runes refresh every...2 seconds?

Warriors are all about getting on a roll. Once they start hitting fast, yes, they never stop.

Shammies also never stop.

It's normal for melee DPS to just keep going and going and going and going.



rogues get 20 energy ervery 2 seconds. SS costs 45 or 40 talented. also being in combat has no effect on their energy regen. there's no 'luck' to hemo either, it's a talent in subtlety. 35 or 30 talented.
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Postby PsiVen » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:19 pm

JotW is definitely NOT enough mana to spam Consecration and Divine Storm on cooldown.

Of course, ret pallies probably are overpowered here and this patch is going to ruin pre-expansion PvP just as much as 2.0 did. Want to heal? Too bad, everybody dies in 2 seconds.
Last edited by PsiVen on Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Invisusira » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:20 pm

Character copy queues are open RIGHT NOW, if you haven't been able to get thru go do it quick before they fill up again! I copied both my characters to PvE and PvE test servers.
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Postby Obrimos » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:27 pm

fizikz wrote:
Obrimos wrote:
Pious wrote:I don't see how being level 80 changes the fact that we can hit the following instant cast attacks ad infinitum with Judgements of the Wise:

Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Judgement of x
Hammer of Wrath (if below 35%)

along with passively occurring -

Auto-attack
Seal procs
Consecration ticks

I haven't played as Warrior/Rogue/Deathknight - but are they also able to spam rotations like these without ever worrying about rage/energy/runic power?

Don't get me wrong, I love the changes. But I can see how others will be easily swayed into taking up the "nefr Pala" chant until they actually do.


Rogues can SS every 2 seconds, at least, if they're combat. They can Hemo a little faster if they're lucky.

DKs strike lot. All of their attacks are instant and runes refresh every...2 seconds?

Warriors are all about getting on a roll. Once they start hitting fast, yes, they never stop.

Shammies also never stop.

It's normal for melee DPS to just keep going and going and going and going.



rogues get 20 energy ervery 2 seconds. SS costs 45 or 40 talented. also being in combat has no effect on their energy regen. there's no 'luck' to hemo either, it's a talent in subtlety. 35 or 30 talented.


There's luck in any rogue build, unless you've got your timing perfect.

And a Combat rogue can SS about every 2 seconds. If you're not getting Combat Potency procs often enough to do that, then you need more Hit and a faster OH.
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Postby fizikz » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:46 pm

20% chance to get 15 energy would be 3 energy every hit on average... i dont think you'll get 7 OH hits every 2 seconds ;)
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Postby Obrimos » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:13 pm

fizikz wrote:20% chance to get 15 energy would be 3 energy every hit on average... i dont think you'll get 7 OH hits every 2 seconds ;)


I get about 3, on average, with a 1.4 off hand, SND up, and some haste.

I SS on my rogue, in Kara and badge gear, about every 3 seconds. I rarely have to wait.
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Postby Jaedyn » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:16 pm

Wow our judgement damage got nerfed *Hard*.

In my Lamellar gear, I was hitting for 846 with SoR. Vengance was a little better, but still down from before.


Trying out prot right now. Overall I just feel like my damage output is a lot lower, but HotR seems all right so far.
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Postby Andox » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:28 pm

Jaedyn wrote:Wow our judgement damage got nerfed *Hard*.

In my Lamellar gear, I was hitting for 846 with SoR. Vengance was a little better, but still down from before.


Trying out prot right now. Overall I just feel like my damage output is a lot lower, but HotR seems all right so far.


You mean if we compare to live? A overall threat decrease?
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Postby Jaedyn » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:47 pm

Lets see here:

On the test realm:

5 stack vengance judging for 490ish on average it looks like.

On live:

914 with the same spellpower.

Stats on PTR: 396 spellpower, 878 AP.

Now mind you, our spells currently scale better with AP than with SD so it's not going to be that bad in the long run. But as of right now I feel like our holy damage got majorly nerfed. HotR more than makes up for it though for prot threat wise.

-------

HOLY SHIT WE KILL GROUPS OF THINGS FAST NOW!

No lie, things fall over in drones. Don't bother pulling just 3, pull 7 or 8. Tab HotRing + AS + Concecrate = GG. New BoSanc + Judgment of wisdom basically will not let me run OOM against world mobs. Gonna go try to solo Shattered halls right now.


Edit: Apparently blizzard wants us to all get the "going down" achievement VERY badly. There are a *ton* of random spots in outlands right now that just dismount you without warning. Died twice like that so far when DS has been on CD. Extremely annoying.
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