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[?] New Spell Coefficients

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Postby Amanor » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:56 pm

Scotthew wrote:I updated the original post with all the known spell coefficients. Some more testing and confirmation is needed for Holy Shield, Consecration, and Seal of Vengeance. What boggles me is the new Consecration coefficients are so large that Consecration will do more single target DPS than Hammer of the Righteous. O.o


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Holy Shield actually seems to have coefficients of 5.6-5.7% AP and 9% SP as far as I can figure. Ran a few tests with varying amounts of AP and SP, 600 and 0, 1000 and 0, 600 and 200, 600 and 400, and the numbers seem fairly accurate, with 1 damage of discrepancy here and again. Of course, if someone else with more experience figuring such out would run their own tests, I'd feel a lot more confident about those numbers.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:41 pm

Amanor wrote:
Scotthew wrote:I updated the original post with all the known spell coefficients. Some more testing and confirmation is needed for Holy Shield, Consecration, and Seal of Vengeance. What boggles me is the new Consecration coefficients are so large that Consecration will do more single target DPS than Hammer of the Righteous. O.o


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Holy Shield actually seems to have coefficients of 5.6-5.7% AP and 9% SP as far as I can figure. Ran a few tests with varying amounts of AP and SP, 600 and 0, 1000 and 0, 600 and 200, 600 and 400, and the numbers seem fairly accurate, with 1 damage of discrepancy here and again. Of course, if someone else with more experience figuring such out would run their own tests, I'd feel a lot more confident about those numbers.


I think the one damage discrpency is the way blizzard handles rounding. For instance if the damage comes out to 100.3, then on about a third of the hits you'll get 101 damage and 100 on the rest.
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Postby Tev » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:25 pm

Does anyone know if the coefficients changes on Judgment of Command or is it still

Code: Select all
[ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 30% of MW ]
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Postby Vanifae » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:15 am

trellian wrote:
Modal wrote:I apparently came in second with 624 dps


seriously?
I do about 450-500 dps single target (read boss) on live, and (normal) big aoe pulls i'm usually outdps-ing any non-aoe class.

So either nothing much changed with regard to our dps, or their dmg meter was pretty fubar :P

(i'm hoping for the last)

Can I see a WWS on that I am doing somewhere in the neighborhood of about 1000-1300 TPS on live in BT with bursts up to 3k threat for short durations and I still only get about 400ish DPS.

For Reference our last Najentus and Supremus kills:
http://wowwebstats.com/dwaqyzxgvrdiw?s=26051-40553
http://wowwebstats.com/dwaqyzxgvrdiw?s=79525-95895

Currently on beta I am doing an average of 550ish DPS non-raid buffed in gear that is weaker then what I am currently wearing on live.
http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... 930#227930

This is most definitely a buff to our DPS.
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Postby InspiredOgre » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:44 am

Scotthew wrote:
Macha wrote:They seem the same as always, 0.32 always was the total coefficient, with 0.04 for each tick, weren't they?


It was 0.24 last build. At the listed 0.32 a paladin with my stats at 70 and using a Syphon of the Nathrezim (make note that's a DPS weapon, not a SP weapon) would do ~134 DPS with Consecration and ~118 DPS with HotR--single target. I just find it odd that a baseline AoE spell does more damage and threat than our shiny new 51-point talent...


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Thats compareing apples and oranges.... A PBAOE ticking every 3 seconds vs a 3pt DD that ticks once every 6 seconds.

Also, your DPS/TPS figured dont account for the fact that HotR procs seals, which can add to DPS/TPS.

I dont find it odd, I guess.
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Postby Scotthew » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:12 am

InspiredOgre wrote:Thats compareing apples and oranges.... A PBAOE ticking every 3 seconds vs a 3pt DD that ticks once every 6 seconds.

Also, your DPS/TPS figured dont account for the fact that HotR procs seals, which can add to DPS/TPS.

I dont find it odd, I guess.


It's just not very intuitive. If you weren't a number cruncher, it would be reasonable to assume that Consecration wouldn't do near as much single target DPS as HotR. If you were mage you wouldn't think Arcane Explosion would do more DPS than their new 51-point Arcane Barrage, would you?

I guess my issue is that Hammer of the Righteous needs to be fleshed out some more. I think it's great that they're trying to get us away from using strictly caster weapons, but they're not quite there yet. Our only ability that greatly benefits from using a melee weapon only accounts for about 18% of our threat, and that's at level 70 prior to SotR. If things stay the way they are, weapon speed will be the deciding factor in our choice for a main tanking weapon and caster weapons will be preferred for pulls beyond three targets.

I'm not sure what the solution is, just stating my thoughts.

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Postby Macha » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:58 am

Scotthew wrote: If things stay the way they are, weapon speed will be the deciding factor in our choice for a main tanking weapon and caster weapons will be preferred for pulls beyond three targets.


Your information is outdated. If things stay the way they are now, weapon speed will be meaningless. The only thing affecting HotR now is AP and weapon DPS(not speed or weapon damage).
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Postby Scotthew » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:03 am

Macha wrote:Your information is outdated. If things stay the way they are now, weapon speed will be meaningless. The only thing affecting HotR now is AP and weapon DPS(not speed or weapon damage).

Could you provide links? I haven't read anything to say HotR has been normalized yet (and even if it has weapon speed is still a huge factor).


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Postby Kayoto » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:06 am

Scotthew wrote:
Macha wrote:Your information is outdated. If things stay the way they are now, weapon speed will be meaningless. The only thing affecting HotR now is AP and weapon DPS(not speed or weapon damage).

Could you provide links? I haven't read anything to say HotR has been normalized yet (and even if it has weapon speed is still a huge factor).


Thaco
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It hasn't just been 'normalized' in the sense of regular normalization, like what occurs for Sinister Strike and Hemorrhage.

It's literally doing the exact same damage with two separate weapons, both with 140.00 DPS, but one is 1.6 speed and the other is 2.7 speed.

It's an awkward, yet positive change (from a gear consolidation point of view).

Edit: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=13527
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Postby Macha » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:25 am

Scotthew wrote:Could you provide links?


You actually replied to the thread that was discussed in before asking this here, do read the threads. :P It helps.

As said- weapon speed plays no role at the moment.
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Postby Blutreich » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:26 am

InspiredOgre wrote:HotR procs seals


don't forget this
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Re: [?] New Spell Coefficients

Postby Amanor » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:14 pm

Scotthew wrote:
Code: Select all
Avenger's Shield:   680 + 0.07AP + 0.07SP
Holy Shield*:       160 + 0.05AP + 0.05SP
Consecration*:      576 + 0.32AP + 0.32SP
Seal of Veng/Cor*:  0.195AP + 0.095SP (per stack over 15sec.)
JoV/JoCor:          1 + 0.20AP + 0.32SP (+10% per stack)
Seal of Right:      (0.028AP + 0.055SP) * WS
JoR:                1 + 0.25AP + 0.40SP
SotM/SoB:           0.35WD
JotM/JoB:           0.25WD + 0.20AP + 0.32SP
Hammer of Wrath:    771 + 0.15AP + 0.15SP
Exorcism:           726 + 0.15AP + 0.15SP
Holy Wrath:         845 + 0.07AP + 0.07SP

*Needs further testing.


Just thought it bore mentioning, I did some testing of my own and came to the conclusion that...

HS = 160 + 0.056AP + 0.09SP
Consecration is as listed above, Base damage (576 at 70, 904 at 80) + 0.32AP + 0.32SP (Only mentioned in regard to the asterisk)
SoV/Cor = (0.039AP + 0.019SP) Per tic (Again, as listed above)

Also, Hammer of Wrath and Holy Wrath seem to have the right coefficients, but the base numbers listed on Wowhead seemed off. Unfortunately, I can only provide numbers to at most level 73 available ranks.

In case anyone is interested:
Rank 4 Holy wrath is listed at 857-1007 when the actual base seems to be 860-1010.
Rank 4 Hammer of Wrath is listed at 733-809 when it's 747-823.

Small, yeah, but it was frustrating enough for me when trying to double check the coefficients that I thought it worth listing.
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Postby Scotthew » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:22 pm

Updated the front page with newer data.

Code: Select all
Avenger's Shield:   680 + 0.07AP + 0.07SP
Holy Shield*:       160 + 0.056AP + 0.09SP
Consecration:       576 + 0.32AP + 0.32SP
Seal of Veng/Cor:   0.16AP + 0.08SP (per stack over 15sec.)
JoV/JoCor:          1 + 0.175AP + 0.28SP (+10% per stack)
Seal of Right:      (0.028AP + 0.055SP) * WS
JoR:                1 + 0.25AP + 0.40SP
SotM/SoB:           0.28WD
JotM/JoB:           0.25WD + 0.20AP + 0.32SP
Hammer of Wrath:    771 + 0.15AP + 0.15SP
Exorcism:           726 + 0.15AP + 0.15SP
Holy Wrath:         845 + 0.07AP + 0.07SP

*Needs further testing.
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Postby Scotthew » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:32 pm

Does anyone know how the bonus damage for Seal of Vengeance (that measly 10-20 on swing when you have a 5 stack) is calculated?


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Postby Mavrix » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:08 pm

Modal wrote:Are we ok with this change? My JoV is only hitting for around 600 now with a full stack. And that's with much more AP and 200 more spellpower than on live, where it usually approaches 1k. It feels like it's taking me much longer to kill stuff on my own.

However, I tanked Utgarde Keep last night and someone actually had a damage meter. I apparently came in second with 624 dps. Now, that includes a fair amount of AoE, of course, but maybe it's all in my head and our dps is still tremendously buffed in beta?


624 dps still does not seem that great, though.
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