[?] New Spell Coefficients

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Postby Juugimus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:56 am

MomysLidlMonsta wrote:I think they dind't change the coefficients (at least not much) but made it mitigated by armor


If that were the case our judgments should be doing half as much on high armor targets than they are on low armor targets. I haven't noticed that to be the case.
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Postby Scotthew » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:32 am

The base damage of judgment changed from "36% attack powa + 58% spell powa" to "22% attack powa + 35% spell powa". That is -40% nerf (doing 60% damages then last build)


Which Judgement is this in reference too? Command?


Another question for the spreadsheet I'm working on:

Seal of Righteousness is modified by weapon speed, but is that base weapon speed or hasted weapon speed? If it's base then it scales with haste, but if it's modified by the paperdoll weapon speeed, then it only scales with AP and SP.


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Postby Nalyn » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:48 am

Scotthew wrote:
The base damage of judgment changed from "36% attack powa + 58% spell powa" to "22% attack powa + 35% spell powa". That is -40% nerf (doing 60% damages then last build)


Which Judgement is this in reference too? Command?


Another question for the spreadsheet I'm working on:

Seal of Righteousness is modified by weapon speed, but is that base weapon speed or hasted weapon speed? If it's base then it scales with haste, but if it's modified by the paperdoll weapon speeed, then it only scales with AP and SP.


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That should be your 'base' judgement damage, before it's modified by your current active seal, or any other effects.

And as far as I know, the weapon speed Seal of Righteousness is calculated on is, and has been, your base weapon speed.
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Postby Scotthew » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:05 am

Nalyn wrote:That should be your 'base' judgement damage, before it's modified by your current active seal, or any other effects.


Hold the phone. Judgements have damage even w/o a Seal? O.o

I'll have to add that into my spreadsheet. Unfortunately coefficients for this base Judgement damage isn't listed on Wowhead. Any clues where I could find them, even old values? It seems a tad overpowered if there's additional damage, because my numbers for Judgement of Righteousness are already over 1000.


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Postby Norrath » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:19 am

Judgement had .36 AP + .58 SP as base damage prior to the coefficient change; what they have now....
You need a seal to use it, but SoL/SoW/SoJ do not affect your Judgement damage.

Seal of Righteousness increases this base Judgement damage by 25%. That's all the damage you get from using Judgement while using SoR. SoV has 10% bonus damage per debuff on the mob, so 50% with a 5-stack.
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Postby Scotthew » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:38 am

Norrath wrote:Judgement had .36 AP + .58 SP as base damage prior to the coefficient change; what they have now....
You need a seal to use it, but SoL/SoW/SoJ do not affect your Judgement damage.

Seal of Righteousness increases this base Judgement damage by 25%. That's all the damage you get from using Judgement while using SoR. SoV has 10% bonus damage per debuff on the mob, so 50% with a 5-stack


Wow, I'm confused.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=21084

Seal of Righteousness
...
"Unleashing this Seal's energy will cause [1 + 0.45 * AP + 0.73 * SPH] Holy damage to an enemy."


So technically this matches up to what you just said, except Wowhead has rolled the base damage into the description of the Seal.

I'm on track now! So essentially we just need to find out what the new base coefficients are for Judgement? I imagine the Seals themselves went unchanged.


The nerf seems merited considering with 640 SP and 1400 AP (approx. my stats come 3.0), Judgement of Righteousness would have averaged over 1100 damage. Over a 30% increase on just one spell for me.


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PS Thanks for the clarification.
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Postby Norrath » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:45 am

Yes, I imagine that would be all that's needed -- and someone already gave a number (though without providing proof), it's in the post you quoted first. .22 AP + .35 SP. That's roughly 60% of the previous damage.
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Postby Scotthew » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:57 am

Norrath wrote:Yes, I imagine that would be all that's needed -- and someone already gave a number (though without providing proof), it's in the post you quoted first. .22 AP + .35 SP. That's roughly 60% of the previous damage.


Yes, if that posted change is indeed correct my Judgement of Righteousness would fall to 700 damage on average. That's actually ~15% damage LESS that it's doing now on live. :cry:

Were the old beta coefficients a bit OP? Probably.
Do I want my Judgements to do less damage than they do now? Hell no.


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Postby Norrath » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:01 am

Our main tanking seal will be Seal of Vengeance anyway.
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Postby MomysLidlMonsta » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:39 pm

Well if I look at my tootips my Seals and Judgements should do about as much damage as they did before.
But when i fight they do only about 60% of what they did before and of what is mentioned in the tooltip so i came up with the armor thing...
Maybe they changed the coefficients but not the tooltips to reflect it
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Postby InspiredOgre » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:42 pm

Norrath wrote:Our main tanking seal will be Seal of Vengeance anyway.


Id be willing to say our main seal, period, will be SoV, with everything applying a debuff, and 100% proc rate, I can get 5 stacks in before I begin my second cycle.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:34 am

InspiredOgre wrote:
Norrath wrote:Our main tanking seal will be Seal of Vengeance anyway.


Id be willing to say our main seal, period, will be SoV, with everything applying a debuff, and 100% proc rate, I can get 5 stacks in before I begin my second cycle.


That'll depend on your weapon speed. Only HotR and auto attacks apply the debuff. Shield slam and judgements do not.
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Postby trellian » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:02 am

Fridmarr wrote:
InspiredOgre wrote:
Norrath wrote:Our main tanking seal will be Seal of Vengeance anyway.


Id be willing to say our main seal, period, will be SoV, with everything applying a debuff, and 100% proc rate, I can get 5 stacks in before I begin my second cycle.


That'll depend on your weapon speed. Only HotR and auto attacks apply the debuff. Shield slam and judgements do not.



That still means that you'll have 3 stacks on your primary target within 3 seconds.. (considering you swing a weapon with a speed faster then 3)
And 3 stacks of SoV allready being superior to SoR, i'm pretty sure SoV is the only seal I'll be using.

swing one, hotr, swing two
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:16 am

trellian wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
InspiredOgre wrote:
Norrath wrote:Our main tanking seal will be Seal of Vengeance anyway.


Id be willing to say our main seal, period, will be SoV, with everything applying a debuff, and 100% proc rate, I can get 5 stacks in before I begin my second cycle.


That'll depend on your weapon speed. Only HotR and auto attacks apply the debuff. Shield slam and judgements do not.



That still means that you'll have 3 stacks on your primary target within 3 seconds.. (considering you swing a weapon with a speed faster then 3)
And 3 stacks of SoV allready being superior to SoR, i'm pretty sure SoV is the only seal I'll be using.

swing one, hotr, swing two


I'm not suggesting you won't be constantly using SoV, I'm just saying you may or may not have a 5 stack up before your second cycle.

So far I mostly use SoR for single target grinding though, because a lot of the mobs die pretty fast. That may partially be because Storm Peaks and Icecrown are still down on the beta server I'm using, so I'm not fighting many level 80 mobs. The level 80 mobs I've seen so far have 12.6k health.
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Postby Modal » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:56 am

Are we ok with this change? My JoV is only hitting for around 600 now with a full stack. And that's with much more AP and 200 more spellpower than on live, where it usually approaches 1k. It feels like it's taking me much longer to kill stuff on my own.

However, I tanked Utgarde Keep last night and someone actually had a damage meter. I apparently came in second with 624 dps. Now, that includes a fair amount of AoE, of course, but maybe it's all in my head and our dps is still tremendously buffed in beta?
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