Itemization problem, please add your 2 cents

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Postby Norrath » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:20 pm

Y'know, I realize this might be blasphemy to some of you, but I hated T2. >_> Mask... urrgh.
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Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:21 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
PsiVen wrote:But everything except tier 2 is surprisingly decent looking if you turn the helm off...


Fixt.
Lies. Tier 1 and 5 look terrible no matter what.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:23 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
PsiVen wrote:But everything except tier 2 is surprisingly decent looking if you turn the helm off...


Fixt.
Lies. Tier 1 and 5 look terrible no matter what.


haha Tier 1 was Ok if you also took off the shoulders. Nothing could really help tier 5.
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Postby Arcand » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:47 pm

"I am Jack's total lack of surprise."
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Postby Seraphia » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:58 pm

Griffonheart wrote:It seems that defensive weapons are still focusing on fast attack speed...

Question. Warriors too have attack focus on weapon damage but they're not limited to slow weapon as many proclaimed paladins should. I am no expert on warrior tanking so what is the difference between warrior's instant attack compare to ours, if they don't mind using quick weapons?



I think it's about Heroic Strike. Heroic Strike is a 'on next swing' attack, so faster you swing, more HS you can get in... but I'm not 100% sure.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:58 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Look just wait for them to finish prot THEN whine about items :P


Very simply:

No.


Why don't you stop whining about people whining so I don't have to whine about you whining?
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Postby Morendin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:58 pm

Ferrix wrote:Meh, to be honest, I really don't think blizzard will do anything about it. Even though HoTR favors a slow weapon, thats about all that really favors the slower weapon. They won't create a whole new set of tank weapons that are slow, because that goes against what they've been doing, and because if they didn't want to make Pally tank weapons before WOTLK, why would they start now? I think we're just going to need to suck it up and use a fast weapon, even if it isn't best for one of our abilities.

yeah, about that? if we don't use a slow weapon, we're back to caster weapons, and in fact, a 2.5+ speed caster mace(like, say, the BS BoE craftable) with 83 DPS will do the exact same HotR threat as a 1.6 speed warrior stick that does *129* DPS.

in other words, we'd be weighing ~60 white DPS and a very small amount of HotR damage against 490 SP, and I think we all know how THAT math works out.

and that's normalized
un-normalized, the SP stick has HARDER hammers
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Postby Dragonzbane » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:01 pm

Ferrix wrote:Are there any other tankadin mechanics that favor a slow weapon?
Doesn't SoV favor a faster weapon?

Really its not a huge problem that needs to be addressed. Its an annoyance, an inconvenience but not something that will cripple us or really hurt us.


Bullshit, it is a huge problem.

They claim over and over how they want tanks to be equal and it looks like they are trying to make that happen with skills and talents...

Then they release itemization that still favors warriors.

Did you see our Nax set?
It's terrible compared to the other two sets avoidance wise.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:04 pm

Ferrix wrote:Yes it sucks that our 51 point talent can't be used to its fullest potential without missing out on the stats on a real tank weapon. Does it prevent us from putting out a respectable amount of TPS?
Does it require us to get a whole new subset of tank weapons that benefits only us?
Really, if it turns out that it does become a huge problem and the small loss in threat keeps us from maintaining threat, there are simpler solutions then designing an entire subset of weapons just for us.



So you are already ready to except 2nd best or not quite as effective?


Hopefully, most of our Beta testing brothers have higher standards.
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Postby Morendin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:08 pm

Dragonzbane wrote:
Ferrix wrote:Are there any other tankadin mechanics that favor a slow weapon?
Doesn't SoV favor a faster weapon?

Really its not a huge problem that needs to be addressed. Its an annoyance, an inconvenience but not something that will cripple us or really hurt us.


Bullshit, it is a huge problem.

They claim over and over how they want tanks to be equal and it looks like they are trying to make that happen with skills and talents...

Then they release itemization that still favors warriors.

Did you see our Nax set?
It's terrible compared to the other two sets avoidance wise.


the Naxx set I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, because the big difference is trading like 15 def and 50 dodge rating for a shit-ton of threat in the form of 10 STR and 50+ BV, with some BR for flavor...assuming they actually make blocking fully viable as our flavor, such that a paladin has, say, ~2-5% less avoidance than a warrior, but a comperable EH advantage from blocking everything, I'll be happy.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:13 pm

Morendin wrote:the Naxx set I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, because the big difference is trading like 15 def and 50 dodge rating for a shit-ton of threat in the form of 10 STR and 50+ BV, with some BR for flavor...assuming they actually make blocking fully viable as our flavor, such that a paladin has, say, ~2-5% less avoidance than a warrior, but a comperable EH advantage from blocking everything, I'll be happy.


If that happens I'll go along with it but I'm still never going to be a fan of us having less avoidance than warriors or DKs regardless. I have too much conditioning to overwrite.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:19 pm

Dragonzbane wrote:
Morendin wrote:the Naxx set I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, because the big difference is trading like 15 def and 50 dodge rating for a shit-ton of threat in the form of 10 STR and 50+ BV, with some BR for flavor...assuming they actually make blocking fully viable as our flavor, such that a paladin has, say, ~2-5% less avoidance than a warrior, but a comperable EH advantage from blocking everything, I'll be happy.


If that happens I'll go along with it but I'm still never going to be a fan of us having less avoidance than warriors or DKs regardless. I have too much conditioning to overwrite.


Already got the 4% flat DR, ranged slot stats, and subpar weapons to deal with.
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Postby Morendin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:24 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Dragonzbane wrote:
Morendin wrote:the Naxx set I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, because the big difference is trading like 15 def and 50 dodge rating for a shit-ton of threat in the form of 10 STR and 50+ BV, with some BR for flavor...assuming they actually make blocking fully viable as our flavor, such that a paladin has, say, ~2-5% less avoidance than a warrior, but a comperable EH advantage from blocking everything, I'll be happy.


If that happens I'll go along with it but I'm still never going to be a fan of us having less avoidance than warriors or DKs regardless. I have too much conditioning to overwrite.


Already got the 4% flat DR, ranged slot stats, and subpar weapons to deal with.

well, the other part I mentioned up-thread is that the whole bc "paladins make do, warriors get 2+ custom weapons per tier" business can go fuck itself. I'd honestly prefer just not making any 'tank weapons' and EVERYONE shares with the DPS that like weapons at their preferred speed, but making a paladin tanking weapon and a warrior tanking weapon every tier is fine, as long as the paladin one is always a mace(<3 dorf racial).
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Postby Moses » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:25 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Dragonzbane wrote:
Morendin wrote:the Naxx set I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, because the big difference is trading like 15 def and 50 dodge rating for a shit-ton of threat in the form of 10 STR and 50+ BV, with some BR for flavor...assuming they actually make blocking fully viable as our flavor, such that a paladin has, say, ~2-5% less avoidance than a warrior, but a comperable EH advantage from blocking everything, I'll be happy.


If that happens I'll go along with it but I'm still never going to be a fan of us having less avoidance than warriors or DKs regardless. I have too much conditioning to overwrite.


Already got the 4% flat DR, ranged slot stats, and subpar weapons to deal with.


Right for warriors, but i think DK are forced into DPS 2 handers, no ranged weapon and even less DR (in fact I think all the get physically is a 40% armor buff, which really only makes up for not having a shield). Although from what I've read DK will be the avoidance tank.
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Postby aranil » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:43 pm

Moses wrote:
Right for warriors, but i think DK are forced into DPS 2 handers, no ranged weapon and even less DR (in fact I think all the get physically is a 40% armor buff, which really only makes up for not having a shield). Although from what I've read DK will be the avoidance tank.

Well, the way they work, they are the ones who don't need to worry about getting hit to generate massive amounts of rage/mana to keep going. If they do have the better tiers avoidance wise, I won't QQ, cause I think paladins will have better EH, although I figured EH would be better for magic tanking over avoidace (if you can dodge a fireball...))
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