Itemization problem, please add your 2 cents

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Postby Arthuria » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:03 pm

Ausitn wrote:isnt that the model for the Sword of a Thousand Truths?


it's the same model as The Hungering Cold
Last edited by Arthuria on Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby moduspwnens » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:05 pm

Arthuria wrote:
Ausitn wrote:isnt that the model for the Sword of a Thousand Truths?


it's the same model as The Hungering Cold


except with a relevant name, "Slayer of the Lifeless," and relevant flavor text.
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Postby Swagger » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:13 pm

"Foretold by Salzman." WIN.
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Postby aranil » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:16 pm

Don;t we want to complain? I mean, this is beta, and Blizz is putting stuff out there they think is useful, if we say it's not, then hey, they will fix it. If we sit on our hands, nothing gets fixed, waiting for them to fix something they don't see as broken won't fix it
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Postby ScribeShanky » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:20 pm

Considering the 5-stack SoV damage-on-swing hits for the same, regardless of weapon speed, could we possibly make up the potential damage lost on HotR by using a fast weapon, and Seal of Vengeance?
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Postby Macha » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:21 pm

Ferrix wrote:Yes it sucks that our 51 point talent can't be used to its fullest potential without missing out on the stats on a real tank weapon. Does it prevent us from putting out a respectable amount of TPS?


You didn't think this through.

Look. What happens is that these tank weapons make us do about 200 TPS less than we could with a spelldamage weapon. Slow weapons already are slightly worse in threat than spelldamage weapons like the Titansteel Guardian.

What you are missing is that all that happened is that the situation on life was recreated. Like today, we can use a tanking weapon - or we can do aggro like other tanks. We cannot do both with this.

Blizzard can either balance us around spelldamage weapons (killing our aggro when using tank weapons) or around fast tank weapons (making our aggro overpowered when using a spelldamage weapon).

That is why we use common sense, and ask for slow tanking weapons (or a change to HotR that makes it favor fast weapons, not slow ones). If blizzard balances us around slow tanking weapons, we have the choice between
a)Tank stats (a few percent)
b)Aggro (double digit tps)

This is how it should be. We should not have to either suck at threat, or use a spelldamage weapon.
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Postby Petrus » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:11 pm

Ausitn wrote:isnt that the model for the Sword of a Thousand Truths?


Well, it is, but it's also the model of The Hungering Cold, the previous Naxx sword. Note the flavor text at the bottom of the tooltip.
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Postby Io.Draco » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:12 pm

I think we can worry about this after we get our changes , just patience :P
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:40 pm

Io.Draco wrote:I think we can worry about this after we get our changes , just patience :P


There's nothing hurt by discussing this now. You are free to wait until we get our changes if that's your feeling about it.
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Postby Norrath » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:50 pm

ScribeShanky wrote:Considering the 5-stack SoV damage-on-swing hits for the same, regardless of weapon speed, could we possibly make up the potential damage lost on HotR by using a fast weapon, and Seal of Vengeance?


Seal of Vengeance doesn't scale with weapon speed. The proc you're referring to deals more damage with a slower weapon, as it's multiplied by weapon speed.

There's no benefit to using a fast weapon, and we lose HotR damage. We want slow weapons.
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Postby Vesstair » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:09 pm

1. Are there any skills OTHER than HotR which make us favor fast/slow weapons? I can't think of any ATM, but I might be forgetting something.

2. If HotR is normalized, why does it still favor slow weapons? From what I understand of normalization, it makes it so the weapon speed doesn't matter.. erm, at all.

3. A good number of paladins will not want to use swords regardless.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm

Vesstair wrote:1. Are there any skills OTHER than HotR which make us favor fast/slow weapons? I can't think of any ATM, but I might be forgetting something.

2. If HotR is normalized, why does it still favor slow weapons? From what I understand of normalization, it makes it so the weapon speed doesn't matter.. erm, at all.

3. A good number of paladins will not want to use swords regardless.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/96583560 ... anics.html

Kalgan wrote:Dwarf
- Frost Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Frost spells by 2%

- Racial Passive "Mace Specialization": Expertise with Maces and Two-Handed Maces increased by 5.

emphasis mine.

Methinks I'm gonna like my BS mace to start WotLK with.


Normalization effects the way AP is applied but the damage listed on the weapon still matters, and a slow weapon has a bigger number. I don't know the math overal to be comparing a fast weapon across the board, but HotR is our 51 point talent, it would be a shame if it didn't hit reaonably hard.
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Postby Norrath » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm

Vesstair wrote:2. If HotR is normalized, why does it still favor slow weapons? From what I understand of normalization, it makes it so the weapon speed doesn't matter.. erm, at all.


You don't understand normalization. Don't worry, it's not uncommon.

The only effect normalization has is with regards to the damage contribution from attack power. Attack power adds AP/14 DPS. Thus, a non-normalized attack adds AP/14*Weapon Speed to each hit. A normalized attack adds AP/14*Normalized Speed.

A slower weapon will necessarily have a higher damage range to keep the same DPS as a faster weapon, however. When you have an instant attack, weapon speed doesn't matter -- it's instant -- but the damage range stays the same. Thus, the slower the weapon, the bigger the damage range, and the more damage your instant attack deals.
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Postby PsiVen » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:16 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
Arthuria wrote:
Ausitn wrote:isnt that the model for the Sword of a Thousand Truths?


it's the same model as The Hungering Cold


except with a relevant name, "Slayer of the Lifeless," and relevant flavor text.


Aye, so far it looks like Naxx10 loot is recolors of old Naxx while Naxx25 is new graphics. How much is placeholders, we can't say. But gold Redemption is surprisingly decent looking if you turn the helm off...
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:19 pm

PsiVen wrote:But everything except tier 2 is surprisingly decent looking if you turn the helm off...


Fixt.
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