Leveling Weapon Skill in Wrath

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Postby Makaijin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:58 pm

I too think it's rather pointless in making you level up your weapon skill. In PvP you attack as if you had max weapon skill for your level, even if only have 1 skill points. The same applies for Feral attacks, but for PvE as well. SO why can't they just grant us the max weapon skill for your level on every level up? It's not like you have run around on your mount for a few hours to up riding skill after you learned it from the trainer.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:08 pm

Dorvan wrote:it definitely eats up some time, it's certainly annoying, and it serves no positive gameplay purpose. Thus, we're saying we should push for its removal. This being Beta, I think it's the perfect time to ask for such a change.


Emphasis mine.

I agree wholeheartedly. If there's an aspect of your gameplay that you find tedious and annoying, now's the time to talk about it.

- Hunters with unsufficient bar space in the default UI for all the abilities that one might want
- leveling weapon skill
- leveling pets from lower levels (admittedly, MORE of a pain than weapon skilling is, but still similar)
- BoSacntuary sucking (well, NOW it doesn't suck at all. :))

Saying, "Well, you can mitigate the annoyance of this by ____" (where ____ is something like watching TV, paying your neighbor kid to do it, or botting) is doing it wrong, from a beta perspective. Find those unpolished corners, and explain why they are unpolished. Weapon skill is one of those.

If weapon skill actually gained relatively quickly (say in an hour's play?) the last 5-10 points, and always had a minimum of (level-2)*5 (so no more than 10 points behind), weapon skill complaints wouldn't be bad -- as you could use it while doing dailies and be FINE.

If weapon skills were abstracted and ALWAYS were maxed, it'd be even better.

If weapon skill training could be 'purchased' (as a shortcut, not as the sole method), it'd also be fine IMO.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:11 pm

FWIW, I found a couple threads on the Beta forums for this already, I tacked my support onto this one:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&sid=2000
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Postby Yinramu » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:34 am

I'm firmly in the camp of getting rid of weapon skill-ups, or making them faster. I have been stuck at one point from max rank on my two-handed swords for the last several days of doing dailies - not a huge difference, but still enough to be annoying.

It's also painful to get an upgrade mid-instance or even just shortly before going to do something and having to stare at it in your bag while you use your old weapon - and it's even worse when you're an enchanter and you can just see what kind of lovely dust it could become.

Switching from a caster to a melee class, I got used to just picking up a weapon, looking at the stats, and saying, "Yup, this one's better, going to use this one today."

So I propose that if weapon skill isn't going to be removed or eased in any way... I want spells to require a skill up to use effectively, and you can't get full effect from your shiny new spell (and this includes healing spells, warlock pets (after all, hunters have had to train their pets up in levels), and crowd control) unless you train your spell skill up.

After all, it would only be fair - and if casters don't like it, they're just whiners.

New skill sets that need to be added as well (after all, shouldn't we have to train to be truly and heroically effective at these?):
Walking
Running
Swimming
Jumping
Eating/Drinking
Resting (if your rest skill isn't up to par, you won't get full bonuses... you just have to sit in an inn for this one - after all, no one has a problem afking doing a silly task)

In all honesty, weapon skill is a product of a bygone mechanic. When they changed weapon skill on items to expertise, they should have just turned weapon skills into an auto-trained item.

For those comparing weapon skills to trade skills:

Does grinding weapon skills help the economy of WoW the same way someone grinding blacksmithing or engineering or leatherworking (etc.) does? I know I don't generally have to buy low level weapon mats, and spend less time getting drops or doing dailies (or anything remotely interesting).

Does it provide an influx of low level materials into the economy? Generally, no - it does provide an influx of people crowding around immune mobs and not responding to tells or chatting though.

Does having a maxed weapon skill help anyone but the player who has it? Can I train someone else in a weapon I've got maxed out but they don't? I know that my weapon skill doesn't create anything but dead mobs... but so does a mages frost/fire/arcane spells, and as far as I know, their skill just maxes automatically.

The question here is not, "is it hard?" (no, people tend to afk it). It's not a whine about "no one does it..."

It's an obsolete mechanic that only adds an element of personal frustration and long periods not attending your keyboard - weapon skills do nothing to help or hinder anyone but the player trying to level them. It's not an intuitive system - you can go long stretches of the game without changing your weapon type, or without using a certain class of weapons (two-handed or one-handed, or ranged as examples).
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:23 pm

I ran Utgarde Pinnacle last night and had amazing luck. I got a skill up of my weapon skill, it's now 397/400! Sadly, I'm amazed at how my defense is just refusing to budge, i'm still at 396/400 there, and that does have an effect on tanking.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:30 pm

Fridmarr wrote:...my defense is just refusing to budge, i'm still at 396/400 there, and that does have an effect on tanking.


Does it matter what level of bad guy is attacking you? If not, couldn't you just pull Gnomeregan, judge light on the final boss and then fold laundry until you hit 400/400?
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Postby Splug » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:36 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I ran Utgarde Pinnacle last night and had amazing luck. I got a skill up of my weapon skill, it's now 397/400! Sadly, I'm amazed at how my defense is just refusing to budge, i'm still at 396/400 there, and that does have an effect on tanking.
My deathknight is stuck at 398... and leaning on resilience to make the crit cap. Two more skill points there would be a pretty huge help.

EDIT: I've heard of getting skillups off boars in front of Orgrimmar, so you may be onto something... though I'd have to find something that does so little damage to me that blood presence would heal through it (and not kill my target).

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Postby dmok » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:36 pm

I think hunters are a good example of this whole weapon skill levelling fiasco.

As an engineer, my hunter used guns as he levelled up. I was able to craft guns for myself all the way through to 70. then, I started running kara. Take a wild guess what kind of weapon blizzard likes to see drop in raids? Bows or Xbows. skills I had maybe 30 points in. Well, at least I have a billion ranged attack skills so it didn't take long to level. but it was damn annoying.

(ps - give me some damn raid guns, and ones that work for hunters and dont have a 0.005% chance of dropping. I'm looking at you wolf Slayer. I'm a dorf engineer for a reason, and all my best weapons are bows!)

the other thing has to do with wing clip. Wing clip uses melee weapon skills. when I pvp, I use wing clip alot. Well, because I'm a good hunter and my pet does all my tanking so I can use my gun ... my melee skill was at like 50 when I hit 70. So, before I got to pvp I had to go and power level a weapon skill I dont use on a regular basis.


so yes, I fully support at least auto-levelling weapon skills to [your_level]-5 to have at least a portion of the "you dont really know how to use a weapon THAT well until you've used it alot" stuff still in there, yet sitll have it be useful enough to USE as soon as you pick up a new weapon type.
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Postby halabar » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:40 pm

Kelaan wrote:- leveling pets from lower levels (admittedly, MORE of a pain than weapon skilling is, but still similar)
be 'purchased' (as a shortcut, not as the sole method), it'd also be fine IMO.


That one is fixed... pets jump to within 5 levels of you in Beta.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:46 pm

Arcand wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:...my defense is just refusing to budge, i'm still at 396/400 there, and that does have an effect on tanking.


Does it matter what level of bad guy is attacking you? If not, couldn't you just pull Gnomeregan, judge light on the final boss and then fold laundry until you hit 400/400?


I have no idea if the level matters, but judgements don't refresh anymore, and the seal expires after 2 minutes.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:50 pm

Hmm. So fold easy laundry, then. Towels or something.
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Postby dmok » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:11 pm

Fridmarr wrote:I have no idea if the level matters, but judgements don't refresh anymore, and the seal expires after 2 minutes.

wait, what?? the seals no longer refresh? I mean, I guess having the different judgements makes sense .. but I guess most of my mana conservation practices I employ now wont be effective in LK ...
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:17 pm

dmok wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I have no idea if the level matters, but judgements don't refresh anymore, and the seal expires after 2 minutes.

wait, what?? the seals no longer refresh? I mean, I guess having the different judgements makes sense .. but I guess most of my mana conservation practices I employ now wont be effective in LK ...


Judgements don't refresh when you hit a mob, but also judging doesn't consume your seal, so you only reseal once every 2 minutes. That's important because seals are expensive now in terms of mana. Anyhow, it's not that expensive to judge once every 20 seconds, and judging is a good source of threat.
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Postby Norrath » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:17 pm

Judgement of Wisdom is fairly inexpensive, really -- 5% base mana, same as currently. That's, what, 200-300 mana at 80?
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Postby dmok » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:21 pm

I meant judgements there, sorry. but yeah, I didn't know they didn't refresh on the target. gone are the days of judging multiple mobs and tab-targeting through them to keep it up. oh well. I guess HotR will do that for me now.
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