Leveling Weapon Skill in Wrath

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Postby Norrath » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:50 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:this flat out makes no sense. Given enough time, weapon skills of players WILL be maxed, so how could you have weapon skill -5 be an intended balancing factor?


Granted, the "might be a balance thing" was a stab in the dark (as by my own admission by saying Blizzard probably hasn't even viewed the issue as such), if weapon skills max out "given enough time," why is there a need to complain?


Norrath wrote:The fact that it will come along at some point doesn't make it any less stupid.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:51 pm

uke wrote:Again, it's grinding for the sake of grinding, with no real point. It's not fun, which is that this game is *supposed* to be. This isn't a job for me, this is a fun activity to do. If something in the game is more painful then fun, then yeah, I'm going to gripe about it. I dont' pay $15 a month to grind away for hours doing pointless tasks.


And it is your right to gripe about your complaints!...

Just as much as it is my right to question your gripes. ;)

So, something I knew full and well before I even made my first post, this: we agree to disagree? ;)

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind (at which point you can now argue the point of any post I've made, but the purpose of a "discussion" forum is to "discuss" things, not necessarily change them).

Norrath: at this point we're going in circles. You say, "It's stupid." I say, "It might be, but I've never had a problem as is."

Fact probably is this: Weapon skill leveling will not be removed, and hopefully I will have weapon options to switch out during my leveling process to keep the pertinent ones (near) max skill,.
Last edited by Amarant_Pally on Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby uke » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:52 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:this flat out makes no sense. Given enough time, weapon skills of players WILL be maxed, so how could you have weapon skill -5 be an intended balancing factor?


Granted, the "might be a balance thing" was a stab in the dark (as by my own admission by saying Blizzard probably hasn't even viewed the issue as such), if weapon skills max out "given enough time," why is there a need to complain?

What is the real "consequence" to dedicating time to leveling a weapon? What other super-important task is there for you to perform? The supposed "10 hours a week" you need to max a weapon skill...what could you have done otherwise?


Some of us have real life commitments that make 10 hours a week a burden for doing literally nothing productive. Ever hear of the saying "time is money?"

The only people I can see having no problem with this are those who literally have infinite amounts of time to do, literally, nothing important.

I don't have the luxury of being able to play WoW 6 hours a day, 7 days a week. When I'm on, I'm going to use my time as efficiently as I can, whether it's earning gold for my epic mount, PVP'ing for honor/arena points/fun, or instancing/raiding. Taking 10 hours a week takes away from all of that. I often only have 10 hours for the week, period, that I can get on and play. If my limited time is literally *wasted* leveling a weapon skill just so I can do dailies/PVP/raid, then yeah, I'm going to gripe. My time is more valuable than that.

Amarant, how much time to you have to waste each week?
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Postby halabar » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:55 pm

Should it be removed?.. No. That makes no sense. Might as well have cooking, fishing and first aid be maxxed as well.

Should it go faster?.. Yes. A skilled combatant should be able to learn a weapon faster.

Should we have a place to train skill ups?.. Yes. The fact that we all use a bugged mob to train on underscores that point.
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Postby uke » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:56 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
uke wrote:Again, it's grinding for the sake of grinding, with no real point. It's not fun, which is that this game is *supposed* to be. This isn't a job for me, this is a fun activity to do. If something in the game is more painful then fun, then yeah, I'm going to gripe about it. I dont' pay $15 a month to grind away for hours doing pointless tasks.


And it is your right to gripe about your complaints!...

Just as much as it is my right to question your gripes. ;)

So, something I knew full and well before I even made my first post, this: we agree to disagree? ;)

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind (at which point you can now argue the point of any post I've made, but the purpose of a "discussion" forum is to "discuss" things, not necessarily change them).


Apparently, I'm not the only person on this board to feel the same. You ever run into one of 'those guys' who will defend a very bad point until he's blue in the face, grasping at whatever straws he can despite pretty much every other person surmounting reason after reason why his idea is, in fact, dumb. And yet he still tries to defend it to the point of defying logic?

Yeah, you're kinda 'that guy', currently.
Last edited by uke on Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Selinaria » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:56 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:this flat out makes no sense. Given enough time, weapon skills of players WILL be maxed, so how could you have weapon skill -5 be an intended balancing factor?


Granted, the "might be a balance thing" was a stab in the dark (as by my own admission by saying Blizzard probably hasn't even viewed the issue as such), if weapon skills max out "given enough time," why is there a need to complain?

What is the real "consequence" to dedicating time to leveling a weapon? What other super-important task is there for you to perform? The supposed "10 hours a week" you need to max a weapon skill...what could you have done otherwise?


I think the real issue as has been stated is this : the 10 hours that it takes to level the weapon skill is time that you cannot play to your full capabilities. Most of us used the servants in Blasted lands because it fully allowed us to go AFK and go read a book or watch TV or watever. It seems kinda foolish to have something that pretty much encourages auto-attack afking just to be able to function at your potential. It doesn't improve you in any way, it's simply just to be able to function properly.

And as for what I could do if I decided to play the game for those 10 hours if I didn't have to level skills, I could be farming, crafting, running instances, helping friends, you name it. Oh and the other thing I could be doing, not playing WoW at all for a bit and then logging in knowing that I am going to be able to function at my full potential. And this very archaic skill system prevents that just because I picked up a new weapon of a type that I haven't used since level 7???? Weapon skill is nothing but a very un-amusing time sink and by Blizzard's own admission they want to eliminate that which is not considered "fun".

It's really kinda foolish to have this system in place overall, especially as every time you level you gotta level X number of weapon skills AGAIN....

Edit: My suggestion is to simply make them level faster. Overall the system is not a bad idea, but to make us wack away for 10 hours to max something is a bit much.
Last edited by Selinaria on Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:57 pm

uke wrote:Amarant, how much time to you have to waste each week?


As I've said before, I've leveled all my weapon skills (except for Polearms) doing things that I naturally do to prepare my character. IE. doing dailies, grinding buff food, killing that "omigawd creature that attacked me while I was mining a node", or during my leveling. I've never had to dedicate a certain amount of time per day, week, or month to level up skills, which is why I can't measure it.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:58 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:this flat out makes no sense. Given enough time, weapon skills of players WILL be maxed, so how could you have weapon skill -5 be an intended balancing factor?


Granted, the "might be a balance thing" was a stab in the dark (as by my own admission by saying Blizzard probably hasn't even viewed the issue as such), if weapon skills max out "given enough time," why is there a need to complain?

What is the real "consequence" to dedicating time to leveling a weapon? What other super-important task is there for you to perform? The supposed "10 hours a week" you need to max a weapon skill...what could you have done otherwise?


In 10 hours I can do a lot. The real consequence is that I'm forced to do something I don't want to do, for no real reward, for a lengthy amount of time. Also, no one said that it takes 10 hours a week, I said that I've played for about 10 hours since hitting level 80, and the weapon I've been using since level 76ish is still 4 points from being maxed out.

People complain about a lot of things they don't like, but often there is at least a point to them. In this case, there really isn't. If it was substantially faster to level a weapon such that there is actual downtime while leveling so that you could switch to a different weapon type without sacrificing your current weapon type then fine. That's not the case, as such, this mechanic is dumb and pointless.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:00 pm

Blizzard has consistently shown a willingness to remove *completely* pointless and tedious timesinks from the game (see consumables changes, fishing levelling improvements, etc).

Weapon skill is currently such a timesink, and should be fixed. It wouldn't be so bad if you could level weapon skills while doing your normal grinding, but the fact is that if a weapon skill has fallen behind you really can't....the damage reduction is too severe. If they really wanted weapon skill levelling to be a part of the game they'd do much better to set all weapon skills to a minimum of 10 or 15 points below max for your level, so you'd never be unreasonably behind in your levelling and forced to grind low level mobs, but really weapon skill levelling adds nothing to the game and should be removed.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:01 pm

Amarant_Pally wrote:
uke wrote:Amarant, how much time to you have to waste each week?


As I've said before, I've leveled all my weapon skills (except for Polearms) doing things that I naturally do to prepare my character. IE. doing dailies, grinding buff food, killing that "omigawd creature that attacked me while I was mining a node", or during my leveling. I've never had to dedicate a certain amount of time per day, week, or month to level up skills, which is why I can't measure it.


I thought you said
/autoattack
/watchmovie
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:02 pm

[quote="Selinaria"]
And as for what I could do if I decided to play the game for those 10 hours if I didn't have to level skills, I could be farming, crafting, running instances, helping friends, you name it. Oh and the other thing I could be doing, not playing WoW at all for a bit and then logging in knowing that I am going to be able to function at my full potential. And this very archaic skill system prevents that just because I picked up a new weapon of a type that I haven't used since level 7???? Weapon skill is nothing but a very un-amusing time sink and by Blizzard's own admission they want to eliminate that which is not considered "fun".
quote]

2 of the 4 options you mentioned (I bolded them) were things I've done (and will continue to do in the future) while leveling weapon skills.

Back when I AoE farmed BT demon supplicants for arcane tomes/sunfury signets, I'd switch out my sword (my primary weapon at the time) for a hammer or axe. Ran an instance for a guildie's low level alt? Same deal. Farmed buff food supplies? Here comes the 2-hander.
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Postby Selinaria » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:09 pm

I am not saying that such things are impossible. You are quite correct in your statements.

However, it really shouldn't be required to swap out weapons when you are doing other stuff to level it. And plus, in all those scenarios, let's say your weapon skill was level 1: Would you be able to do all those things to your full potential while missing every white attack?

I am of the opinion that weapon skill is an ok mechanic IF it wasn't so darn tedious to level. It really shouldn't take effort to get one of every weapon and to swap them out regularly just to operate at my potential.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:11 pm

Dorvan wrote:Blizzard has consistently shown a willingness to remove *completely* pointless and tedious timesinks from the game (see consumables changes, fishing levelling improvements, etc).


Fishing improvements? Do go on...
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:12 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Amarant_Pally wrote:
uke wrote:Amarant, how much time to you have to waste each week?


As I've said before, I've leveled all my weapon skills (except for Polearms) doing things that I naturally do to prepare my character. IE. doing dailies, grinding buff food, killing that "omigawd creature that attacked me while I was mining a node", or during my leveling. I've never had to dedicate a certain amount of time per day, week, or month to level up skills, which is why I can't measure it.


I thought you said
/autoattack
/watchmovie


Nope, I've never had problems watching a movie while auto-attacking a mob that drops buff food. It requires little attention to the game, but yes, sometimes a mob was dead long before I realized it while my attention was my on TV screen. ;)

The point is, combining 1) weapon skill grinding 2) grinding buff food and 3) other (real life) activities removed some of the "tediousness" (in my case, to the point where it didn't seem like effort).
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:14 pm

Selinaria wrote:
However, it really shouldn't be required to swap out weapons when you are doing other stuff to level it. And plus, in all those scenarios, let's say your weapon skill was level 1: Would you be able to do all those things to your full potential while missing every white attack?



Missing a lot of whites in an instance I'm helping a low-bie alt through isn't much of a problem...my Consecrate on the other 20-30 mobs I've gathered is doing enough damage. ;) Much the same for when I was farming BT supplicants.
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