Consolidated WotLK profession perks (which are you taking?)

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Aldonza » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:44 am

I can't quite figure out what I want to do with my second slot.

I'm currently an Enchater/Skinner, based on the fact that my hunter suddenly became an Engineer/LW. However, I'm likely going to be dropping LW soon to get Mining again, as I only took up LW for drums on the hunter.

I've got a good friend who is a BS already, and my boyfriend is a JC on his main. So, I'm thinking of dropping Skinning for Mining to get the Stam buff, and then I can also grab up ore to get items crafted with relative ease.
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Postby Kellann » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:49 am

I'm having more trouble deciding which alt to change professions on to feed my tankadin professions :P

And similarly - with less playtime available nowadays it's hard to decide which toon to push towards 80 after the tankadin (who'll probably ding 1~2wks after release)...

Tailoring's not supposed to be as crucial for casters this time around, right?
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Postby Tunnis » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:53 am

I'm gonna keep Mining/Engi. My mage is herb/alch, rouge ench/??. The rest i have my guild for =)
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Postby Hiroko » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:06 am

Currently JC/Eng and considering dropping Eng for BS as engineering is looking seriously sub-par in terms of raiding benefits.

Shame, since I've been an engineer since release and have pretty much all the schematics available, including the old Molten Core ones :cry:
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Postby oxn » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:51 am

WotLK professions are rather neat and they all have interesting abilities. I have been trying to decide on the best professions for me to pickup in the expansion, so I have spent some of time studying them. I do not have access to the beta, so all of my research has been through profession and database sites.

This is based upon current information and very much subject to change. Leatherworking is ridiculously good compared to other professions. I doubt blizz wants all the paladins and warriors to take it up just for an edge in pve. Personally, I am wary of changes and I am opt'ing to stay away from it.

The underlying question we need to answer before comparing professions is how do we compare them?

Thinking about this led me to another question. Given the ability to add any additional stat(s) to my character, what stat(s) would I choose?
I came up with these in a relative order of awesomr: Stamina, Threat, Block Value, Defense, Dodge, and Parry.

I ideally want a combination of everything so that I am not focused on one stat. However, gem choices in BC taught me that if given equal access to gear, then more stamina is king for progression fights. Stamina is multiplied by talents, increases effective health, and increases the range on AD.

---

Based upon the above, I am going to evaluate professions in relation to health gains.

Given:
- Equal availability of armor

---

Basic overview : Identifying areas of interest

Mining
- 500 hp
- Allows you to gather ore and gems
// This is a good starting point for our tests since the benefits are transparent.

Herbalism/Tailoring/Skinning
- Minor buffs
// These professions are best for other characters.

Inscriptions
- Create scrolls and glyphs
- Extra major glyph
- Shoulder enchants ( +32 dodge rating compare to exalted faction )
// The glyph and dodge are helpful, but we have a limited choice of glyphs.

Enchanting
- 24 stamina ring enchant ( x2 = 48 stamina )
- Can (dis)enchant
// Enchanting beats mining with our passive stamina talents.

Blacksmithing
- 3x extra sockets ( weapon , bracer , gloves )
// Increased maximum of 90 stamina ( 3x epic stamina gems )
- Create sharpening/weight stones
- Create rune of warding
- Create armor and shields
// The big thing here is the extra sockets. There will be plenty of people leveling blacksmithing in WotLK who will be happy to craft your armor for skillups.

Jewelcrafting
- Unique 3x any color gems ( 41 stamina )
- Cut gems
// Easily obtain socket bonuses and meta requirements from any color gems.

Leatherworking
- 90 stamina wrist enchant
- 72 stamina leg enchant
- Resist wrist enchant
- Create armor
- Create and Use Drums ( 2 minute cooldown for raid )
// Very nice self-only enchants.

Engineering
- Toys
- Bombs
- Extract motes from clouds.
- Create goggles and trinkets.
// Engineering is hard to measure. =(

---

Expanding health gains : Determining health gains in different situations

Mining
Best and Worst: 500 hp

Enchanting
Best and Worst:
2 x 24 = 48

Blacksmithing
Assumptions:
- The three extra sockets do not have a specific blacksmithing type requirement.
- Gems for Utility cases will use a stat/sta gem.

Best Case:
3 x 30 = 90

Utility 1 Case: // Require 1 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
2 x 30 + 15 = 75

Utility 2 Case: // Require 2 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
30 + 2 x 15 = 60

Worst Case: // Require 3 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
3 x 15 = 45

Jewelcrafting
Assumptions:
- Gems for Utility cases will use a stat/sta gem ( non-jewelcrafter ).

Base Case: // JC get this bonus regardless as no other 41 stamina gem exists.
3 x ( 41 - 30 ) = 33

Worst Case: // Require 0 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
0 x 15 = 0 + 33 ( Base ) = 33

Utility 1 Case: // Require 1 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
1 x 15 = 15 + 33 ( Base ) = 48

Utility 2 Case: // Require 2 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
2 x 15 = 30 + 33 ( Base ) = 63

Best Case: // Require 3 non-blue gem for meta or bonus
3 x 15 = 45 + 33 ( Base ) = 78

Leatherworking
Assumptions:
- New bracer enchant is +16 Stamina ( this fits the other +stat enchants )
- Best leg enchant is the BC epic kit at +40 stamina.

Best and Worst:
74 ( Wrist ) + 32 ( Legs ) = 106

Engineering
Assumptions:
- I have nothing to compare, see special cases for goggles and trinket considerations

Section Summary
Best Cases ( ORDER BY DESC )
LW 106
BS 90
JC 78
EC 48
M 500 hp

---

Special Cases : BOP Armor and Items

I ran into a problem here. How do I find the actual benefits of these special cases? The special cases are directly related to available gear, so these will scale downward as new gear becomes available.

My thoughts:
I could compare the trinkets to the heroic MGT 57 stamina trinket.
I could compare the engineering helm to T7 helms.

Jewelcrafting
Trinket: 63 Stamina ( 1 blue , 1 yellow : 9 stamina socket bonus )

Best Case
30 + 41 = 71 + 9 ( Socket Bonus ) = 80 + 63 ( Base ) = 143 // hai, wanna go out for snocones?
143 - 57 ( heroic MGT ) = 86

Ignore Color Case
2 x 30 = 60 + 63 ( Base ) = 123
123 - 57 ( heroic MGT ) = 66

Utility 1 and Worst Case // The benefits of using a stat/sta gem are relatively good here
30 + 15 = 45 + 9 ( Socket Bonus ) = 54 + 63 ( Base ) = 117
117 - 57 ( heroic MGT ) = 60

Engineering
Helm: I need to compare this versus 25 man T7 and 10 man T7
Trinket: 81 Stamina
81 - 57 ( heroic MGT ) = 24

Section Summar
Best Cases ( ORDER BY DESC )
JC 164
LW 106
BS 90
EC 48
M 500 hp
// Need to add EN ( Engineering )

---

Some follow-up concerns:
- Anyone have more information about the blacksmithing sockets? I do not have a confirmed number on spec/number, so I just guessed that it gets all three.
- I need to research and add alchemy.
- I need to add engineering helm comparisons. I keep meaning to do this, but I am getting married on Saturday so other things are taking priority.
- Find the minimum case for JC to beat mining without the trinket.
// Editz - 7 Stamina w/ Kings or 12 Stamina w/o Kings
- How should I handle comparing the special cases?
- Corrections and suggestions are welcome. =)

My plans currently for the expansion:
- Level to 80 with mining / blacksmithing
- Max blacksmithing
- Create enough bars for everything I want
- Farm Ore // My rogue also has mining, so I could skip this step.
- Drop mining for jewelcrafting
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Postby Talmus » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:28 am

I was actually starting to think about this.

I play WoW as often as I can but I've been very busy lately. I only have one level 70 character and while he's decently geared (full epics from Kara with Grull's shield and some badge gear in there) that gear's come over a long period of time. I really enjoy running Kara and Grull's when I had the numbers to run it but I'm definitely on the time schedule of a casual gamer and rarely get the time to run dailies.

So right now I'm Engineering/Enchanting. I'm still using the engineering helm...I suppose I could save up the badges for the helm to replace it but it's definitely serving me well. I enjoy being able to d/e stuff and the ring enchants are nice as well. Basically, I'm really happy with Eng/Ench right now.

That said, I'm really worried about whether I'll be able to afford the mats to level my engineering in WotLK. Like I said, most of what I enjoy doing is group/raid stuff. I'm not big into the grinding and don't make a ton of money. I'd hate to give up enchanting (especially after how much effort went into raising it to 375) but I also don't want to be unable to raise my engineering.

So I guess my question is this - will I make enough money off of Enchanting (ie d/e'ing my bop stuff, selling the odd enchant, etc) to offset the cost of buying metal bars, or should I dump Enchanting now and undertake the obnoxious process of getting my mining back to 375?
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Postby LittleHonors » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:03 pm

Talmus wrote:So I guess my question is this - will I make enough money off of Enchanting (ie d/e'ing my bop stuff, selling the odd enchant, etc) to offset the cost of buying metal bars, or should I dump Enchanting now and undertake the obnoxious process of getting my mining back to 375?


I do not think you will have a problem selling off all your DE'ed mats and than buying the engineering items you need. Only problem will be that you can not get into a mad rush to level it since you will be at the mercy of the AH for selling your items and than buying items when the price is right.

I am currently Enchanter / Miner. Once i get close to 80 I am dropping mining for BS. I already have all the mats i need to power level to 375. Plus i have a alt miner to help feed me additional materials. I am also keeping enchanting since I actually do enjoy the profession.

I already have alts that herb (375), mining (375), and skinner (375). So hopefully I will be able to farm any mats I need for the first few weeks while prices stabilize.

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Postby Talmus » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:08 pm

LittleHonors wrote:
Talmus wrote:So I guess my question is this - will I make enough money off of Enchanting (ie d/e'ing my bop stuff, selling the odd enchant, etc) to offset the cost of buying metal bars, or should I dump Enchanting now and undertake the obnoxious process of getting my mining back to 375?


I do not think you will have a problem selling off all your DE'ed mats and than buying the engineering items you need. Only problem will be that you can not get into a mad rush to level it since you will be at the mercy of the AH for selling your items and than buying items when the price is right.

I am currently Enchanter / Miner. Once i get close to 80 I am dropping mining for BS. I already have all the mats i need to power level to 375. Plus i have a alt miner to help feed me additional materials. I am also keeping enchanting since I actually do enjoy the profession.

I already have alts that herb (375), mining (375), and skinner (375). So hopefully I will be able to farm any mats I need for the first few weeks while prices stabilize.

LittleHonors


That's true...if you're not in a hurry the prices will eventually come down. I'll just have to sell off my d/e stuff while the prices are high since I don't care how fast I level either one of them (though I would like to get the helm upgrade sometime around 72 ;) )
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Postby honorshammer » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:22 am

http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2008/10/ ... sions.html

What I'd like to do is analyze each professions benefits from the standpoint of a Protection spec Paladin. There are more benefits to the profession than what I list. See Shia's post for a comprehensive list.

Strong Choices

Blacksmithing - up to 3 additional sockets, 'Blue' BoP gear.
The sockets don't overwrite enchants so you can still enchant and socket your gear. These are more opportunities to add Defense or Stamina to your gear kit.

Jewelcrafting - Better and colorless Gems, can only use 3 at a time. BoP Trinkets (which are likely to be replaced with Raid Drops)
The gems will help you get a socket bonus that you might not otherwise get, and they are better than any other gem you can get for a slot.

Enchanting - Ring Enchants.
These are the only way to get the Ring enchants. and they have one for Stamina.

Leatherworking - LW only Stamina and Resist enchants
If you've done much tanking tBC, you know the 'joy' of putting together a resist set. The stamina on the enchants is better than the stamina you can get from the enchant Enchanters have.

Decent Choices

Inscription - Better Shoulder enchants
The shoulder enchants are nice, but I feel like you get more from the Strong Choices

Mining - 500 Max Health
More health is always good as a tank, but it's health not Stamina so it doesn't scale.

Weaker Choices

Alchemy - Better effects from your Flasks and Elixirs and a BoP Alchemist's Stone that gives Stam and Dodge (which is likely to be replaced with Raid Drops).
You elixirs are 50% more effective for you. In tBC terms that means a 500hp fort Elixir becomes 750. Nice, but not that huge.

Engineering - Nitro Boots, BoP Goggles (which are likely to be replaced with Raid Drops)
The nitro boots can give you the mobility the Protection Paladin lacks at the moment. Nice, but again not that huge. I have loved my Goggles for most of tBC and they lasted me until I got my Tier 6 hat. It looks like the new Goggles will be replaced in Tier 7 (first Raids).

Tailoring - BoP mount, Self Only Spell Threads, Self Only Cloak proc Enchants
The flying carpet is cool but ultimately has no bearing on you as a Protection Paladin. I don't like procs so I certainly won't take a profession whose main perk for me would say "has a chance to...."

Herbalism - a weak HoT
This could be nice since our ability to slam Health pots is reduced in the expansion, but ultimately it's too weak, and if it has a cast time, we can't cast it while tanking.

Skinning - Crit
Even moving to a Warrior type of tanking, Crit is still not a strong threat stat.

So what do you recommend, Honors?

It looks like Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing would be a very strong combination for a tank. Personally, I'm going to keep Engineering and Jewelcrafting. I dropped Engineering at the beginning of tBC and I ended up regretting it to the point of relearning it. I'm going to wait until around Level 75 and then reevaluate if I want to keep Engineering.
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Postby Xorlandu » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:57 am

Right now I'm keeping JC. Others are saying the trinkets will get replaced by raid drops which can happen yes but the only jc trinkets I have seen are the ones at lvl 75, I'll be able to cut my own gems and get tips from cutting gems for others to make a little cash on the side. We sit here and compare just the flat out stat gain from the jc only gems but 99% of the time I would use them to get a socket bonus I otherwise wouldn't get so I'm calculating that in as well as the higher stats on the jc gems.

I'm sitting here waiting to see how BS and LW turn out, if BS actually gets that 2nd meta gem I would most likely go BS (also need to see what kind of bop gear is offered at 80 for BS) otherwise I'm going LW for the stam enchant for my main tank set the resist enchants and the occasion there aren't many LW in the group or even just to help soloing I have +ap/+sp drums to dish out some more damage/threat.
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Postby daemonym » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:23 am

Honorshammer wrote:I'm going to wait until around Level 75 and then reevaluate if I want to keep Engineering.


/agree

i like having a decent head start with the goggles going into naxx so it's forgivable if 1-2 pieces of gear aren't amazing. also the enchants will be very useful i foresee, situational of course, and keeping enchanting for a few reasons

-DE the thousands of quest rewards and sell the mats as prices will be sky high on release, take advantage of the rich desperately impatient people.

-don't have to spam in org for an hour looking for potency to be done, i'll do it myself.

-give free enchants to friends in exchange for their greens/shards
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Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:25 am

Enchanting/BS beats out JC/BS by 15 stamina if you go pure stamina in those three extra sockets. It's not fair to count money making abilities of JC vs Enchanting as both depend on the server and both can make good money. Also not fair to add in trinkets of JC because gear gets replaced. I've got more tank trinkets than I know what to do with.
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Postby deuce » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:12 am

Keeping my JC and Enchanting...

I think that there will defineately be epic JC trinkets along the way...

Enchanting FTW for someone who loves 5-mans like me...

Both of these have benifits for healing (which I end up doing occasionally) and PvP (for which i spec ret)...

I am envious of the gains BS has made, but all i ever hear is that it is a pain to level...
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Postby Omatre » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:59 am

The two that offer the most benefit to each other?
Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting, you need 1 miner
to supply you for both skills, and the basis of which
means that if ya make some armor, and then need
some gems, you can manage all on your own.
You're self sufficient in that regard, it makes the
most sense.

The problem with enchanting. It won't scale per se.
Blacksmithing crafted gear will get better as things
go on, and you will find items to fill gaps, and possibly
have a best in slot item hiding in the T8/T9 level stuff.
Enchanting's benefits at this point, are static, they don't
improve once you get to a certain point. Jewelcrafting
doesn't either really, but its got good synergy with BS
because both are ore based.
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Postby ARogers » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:16 am

Omatre wrote:The two that offer the most benefit to each other?
Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting, you need 1 miner
to supply you for both skills, and the basis of which
means that if ya make some armor, and then need
some gems, you can manage all on your own.
You're self sufficient in that regard, it makes the
most sense.

The problem with enchanting. It won't scale per se.
Blacksmithing crafted gear will get better as things
go on, and you will find items to fill gaps, and possibly
have a best in slot item hiding in the T8/T9 level stuff.
Enchanting's benefits at this point, are static, they don't
improve once you get to a certain point. Jewelcrafting
doesn't either really, but its got good synergy with BS
because both are ore based.


A large problem with the JC/BS in my opinion is that it requires a LOT of ore. I always look at a profession as how it will halp me after I've gotten good items. I'd personally hate to choose BS hoping that I'll get a good item later in the game. I am choosing BS on the fact that no matter what items I get, I still have the sockets. However, I am choosing Enchanting over JC. I can level Ench as I go by DEing greens. Ench is completely self-sufficient. It also has a better effective stamina fom my knowledge. It has effectively 33sta vs 48sta from Enchanting. I don't personally base my professions on BOP items we don't know yet or can be replaced through raids.

JC will definitely be on my farming alt. He'll farm ore and Prospect the ore and cut gems. I've actually been thinking about leveling my farming toon first. I'll be able to take advantage of all you richos overpaying for gear to raid fast. I don't have a big problem coming in a month late to the raiding game. That way it's even more possible to get loot after the other mains have gotten it!

My other option is to take engineering I have now, level it up to 375, and mine on my main and send the ore over to my JC to prospect and cut. From the past expansion, I'm guessing if my alt with JC is 68+, I'll be able to level him to 450 still before I hit 80 with him.
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