Blessing of Sanctuary

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Postby Karock » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:14 am

Honestly I hope that they don't consider us having sanctuary necessary for mana sustainability and "icing on the cake" for the other tanking classes. Cause then we're going to get left behind in the balance phase... again.
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Postby Mortehl » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:24 am

Galoheart wrote:I also don't think it completely fixes our mana problem either because JoW gives a pretty poor amount of mana also.


What?
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:27 am

Mortehl wrote:
Galoheart wrote:I also don't think it completely fixes our mana problem either because JoW gives a pretty poor amount of mana also.


What?


they changed JoW to work off of base mana
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:35 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Mortehl wrote:
Galoheart wrote:I also don't think it completely fixes our mana problem either because JoW gives a pretty poor amount of mana also.


What?


they changed JoW to work off of base mana
2% of total mana? 2% of base mana? Long story short we get little mana.

Or do you mean Judgments of the wise? O.o It became a mp5 buff based on your mana pool.
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Postby Galoheart » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:43 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Mortehl wrote:
Galoheart wrote:I also don't think it completely fixes our mana problem either because JoW gives a pretty poor amount of mana also.


What?


they changed JoW to work off of base mana
2% of total mana? 2% of base mana? Long story short we get little mana.

Or do you mean Judgments of the wise? O.o It became a mp5 buff based on your mana pool.
Little loss to casters, broken ret.



It works of of "TOTAL MANA"

2% of "TOTAL MANA"

Questing/Soloing Test: I'm a Alchemist. Pop Elixir of Draenic Wisdom +30 Intellect. Then Pop a Scroll of Interllect VI for +35 more Intellect. They Stack! When I dropped a Judgement of Wisdom on mob, I got a bit mana increase. Not only that BoS procs for more Mana as well since BoS also returns 2% of Total Mana just like JoW.

JoW works off of "TOTAL MANA" and currently when it procs its very low as we have a pretty small mana pool. My Judgements usually return only 100 mana on a total of 4995 mana bar. 2%
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:52 am

K so it's 2% total mana.

An Arcane mage in high end lvl 80 gear will probably have the odd 14k mana. That's 280 mana per proc. We won't get half that as 7k mana is kinda unlikely for tankadins.
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Postby tbolt » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:58 am

Has anyone suggested rolling Sanc into RF or some other way of making it a self buff? I was looking on the beta forums and it seems that everyone is asking for kings to be trainable in which case we would still have to choose between it and the new Sanc.
Warriors already have rage regen not to mention better damage reduction than us so why should "our" blessing in the prot tree continue to make them better tanks than us? If Sanc was a self only buff for prot pallies it would help bridge the damage reduction gap, help our mana issues, and allow us to still take/give kings as our main blessing.

So can someone please put this on the beta forums so they don't think we actually prefer to make kings baseline in comparison to having Sanc as a self buff.
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Postby Lumennon » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:58 am

Splug wrote:That goes directly against Blizzard's push to diffuse raid utility such that no single spec is absolutely required for another class to function.


How does BoSalv, in it's current form, make any spec viable where it hasn't been previously?

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Postby Soltyr » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Splug wrote:Hrm, I believe that is correct - though like the mana returns from multiple sources, it's going to be tricky to balance / prevent from stacking, lest it become a case of "all raids must have BoSanc for tanks, and all healers should be druids to feed the raid resource returns."


I'm Just curious if BoSanc will stack with Mother Bear and Natural Reaction from the Feral tree (if the PH/NYI will be removed and talents confirmed)


Splug wrote:Otherwise, resto druids will be the new destro lock.


Battle rez + Innervate do stack pretty well in raid too :)
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Postby Andox » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:29 pm

Tbolt wrote:Has anyone suggested rolling Sanc into RF or some other way of making it a self buff? I was looking on the beta forums and it seems that everyone is asking for kings to be trainable in which case we would still have to choose between it and the new Sanc.
Warriors already have rage regen not to mention better damage reduction than us so why should "our" blessing in the prot tree continue to make them better tanks than us? If Sanc was a self only buff for prot pallies it would help bridge the damage reduction gap, help our mana issues, and allow us to still take/give kings as our main blessing.

So can someone please put this on the beta forums so they don't think we actually prefer to make kings baseline in comparison to having Sanc as a self buff.


I don´t have beta access, but I try to lobby for that here =)
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Postby Splug » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:30 pm

Lumennon wrote:
Splug wrote:That goes directly against Blizzard's push to diffuse raid utility such that no single spec is absolutely required for another class to function.


How does BoSalv, in it's current form, make any spec viable where it hasn't been previously?
I understand that it's currently bugged and only returning 1 rage instead of 10, and in that case it's really not a huge deal, but 10 rage per incoming attack would be fairly gamebreaking for prot warrior threat generation.

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Postby lusisia » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:32 pm

Splug wrote:
Lumennon wrote:
Splug wrote:That goes directly against Blizzard's push to diffuse raid utility such that no single spec is absolutely required for another class to function.


How does BoSalv, in it's current form, make any spec viable where it hasn't been previously?
I understand that it's currently bugged and only returning 1 rage instead of 10, and in that case it's really not a huge deal, but 10 rage per incoming attack would be fairly gamebreaking for prot warrior threat generation.

-Splug


Interesting, I understood it to be a typo and not a bug.
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Postby Andox » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:35 pm

lusisia wrote:
Splug wrote:
Lumennon wrote:
Splug wrote:That goes directly against Blizzard's push to diffuse raid utility such that no single spec is absolutely required for another class to function.


How does BoSalv, in it's current form, make any spec viable where it hasn't been previously?
I understand that it's currently bugged and only returning 1 rage instead of 10, and in that case it's really not a huge deal, but 10 rage per incoming attack would be fairly gamebreaking for prot warrior threat generation.

-Splug


Interesting, I understood it to be a typo and not a bug.


I´m pretty sure, that it´s a typo, atleast I hope so. 10% rage on a avoided hit is very much!
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Postby Splug » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:37 pm

I honestly have no idea which it is, and which is the case is anyone's guess. From a balancing standpoint, 10 rage vs 20 runic power vs 2% mana seems a bit skewed, and would make extreme changes to threat models with or without it. From an opportunity cost standpoint, 3% damage reduction* and 1 rage per parry is going to be less EH and less threat generated than 10% stam/str, meaning that either two paladins with 11+ in prot are needed or BoSanc is likely to again fall into disuse in favor of its earlier alternative.

*- Keep in mind that if your raid uses a disc priest, this becomes 0%.

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Postby PsiVen » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Perhaps the intent is that Sanctuary will never be used in a raid environment unless you overgear the content so much that you'll drop Kings on the tank, or you have a second Prot paladin. I can't imagine that it would be better threat than Might, so you still need 3 pallies total for that to work. It seems to me that this is how things would play out, and that's fine by me as long as our other mana concerns are addressed.
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