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Potion sickness V.2

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Pizbit » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:51 am

Mordinm wrote:On a side note how does the potion cooldown work for classes that can drop combat. Will hunters and rogues be able to pot again two minutes after a vanish/FD.


FD doesn't break combat any more.(at least not on bosses)
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Postby dmok » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:55 am

Mordinm wrote:On a side note how does the potion cooldown work for classes that can drop combat. Will hunters and rogues be able to pot again two minutes after a vanish/FD.

Hunters/Rogues can no longer break combat in boss encounters. Even while FD (unresisted), I never leave combat. This was a change done to mainly disallow trinket swaps mid-fight as well as to prevent FD+drinking on phase changes.
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Postby shifttusk » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:49 am

Mordinm wrote:On a side note how does the potion cooldown work for classes that can drop combat. Will hunters and rogues be able to pot again two minutes after a vanish/FD.


FD/Vanish take you OOC for a second then the boss tics you back in combat. I doubt we'll be able to chain pot.
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Postby Jessiespano » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:49 am

dmok wrote:Hunters/Rogues can no longer break combat in boss encounters. Even while FD (unresisted), I never leave combat. This was a change done to mainly disallow trinket swaps mid-fight as well as to prevent FD+drinking on phase changes.


Correct. Basically all they did was separate combat drops from aggro drops, so that type of thing would no longer work. I already have JC, and I'll probably end up dropping alch for blacksmithing at 80. There's a good chance I'll go ahead and level up mining before Northrend, so I can grab nodes on my way up. I've been trying to level my JC on beta, but it's quite a pain without mining and no AH economy to fall back on.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:12 am

shifttusk wrote:
Mordinm wrote:On a side note how does the potion cooldown work for classes that can drop combat. Will hunters and rogues be able to pot again two minutes after a vanish/FD.


FD/Vanish take you OOC for a second then the boss tics you back in combat. I doubt we'll be able to chain pot.

That was before the change, now they don't take you out of combat at all :)
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Postby Andox » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:12 am

Jessiespano wrote:
dmok wrote:Hunters/Rogues can no longer break combat in boss encounters. Even while FD (unresisted), I never leave combat. This was a change done to mainly disallow trinket swaps mid-fight as well as to prevent FD+drinking on phase changes.


Correct. Basically all they did was separate combat drops from aggro drops, so that type of thing would no longer work. I already have JC, and I'll probably end up dropping alch for blacksmithing at 80. There's a good chance I'll go ahead and level up mining before Northrend, so I can grab nodes on my way up. I've been trying to level my JC on beta, but it's quite a pain without mining and no AH economy to fall back on.


Isn´t it wise to take mining? Or am I wrong about the stamins buff, since I thought that mining over 375 gave a small stamina buff that added up to a pretty nice amount when you capped mining. I can see that it´s great for tanks. Every little stamina give me more time to live, so I enjoy the free stamina I can get from mining.
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Postby Arees » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am

dmok wrote:Hunters/Rogues can no longer break combat in boss encounters. Even while FD (unresisted), I never leave combat. This was a change done to mainly disallow trinket swaps mid-fight as well as to prevent FD+drinking on phase changes.


This it OT from the original post, but since we are sorta on the subject.... Does this mean if the raid/group is about to wipe that a rogue cant vanish and a hunter cant fd to avoid being killed? If so that really sucks... Thats how I justified spending so much gold on arrows was because my repair bills were lower....
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Postby dmok » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:35 am

WATERBOYsh wrote:This it OT from the original post, but since we are sorta on the subject.... Does this mean if the raid/group is about to wipe that a rogue cant vanish and a hunter cant fd to avoid being killed? If so that really sucks... Thats how I justified spending so much gold on arrows was because my repair bills were lower....

FD and Vanish just remove you from being targeted by the boss. Once the boss is unable to target anyone else, he "resets" removing you from combat. So yes it is still possible to survive a wipe in progress.

However, while FD you can still be effected by AoE abilities (such as Tidewalker's earthquake) which can deal damage to you and put you back on the aggro list for the boss.
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:46 am

dmok wrote:FD and Vanish just remove you from being targeted by the boss. Once the boss is unable to target anyone else, he "resets" removing you from combat. So yes it is still possible to survive a wipe in progress.

However, while FD you can still be effected by AoE abilities (such as Tidewalker's earthquake) which can deal damage to you and put you back on the aggro list for the boss.


Short version: Unless you FD or Vanish when you are the very last person alive, you're quite likely to be Screwed Anyway. Now, if you can FD earlier so that you're likely last on aggro and have 30 seconds left before you need to FD ... ;)

I find it ironic that my raiding / heroic bills on my tank seem to be less than on my hunter. I don't get it, as it really doesn't make sense,but at least on "farm" content, the cost of damage repair (and maybe 1 death) seems to be less than the cost of arrows and pet food. Bizarre.
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Postby aranil » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:56 am

Kelaan wrote:
dmok wrote:FD and Vanish just remove you from being targeted by the boss. Once the boss is unable to target anyone else, he "resets" removing you from combat. So yes it is still possible to survive a wipe in progress.

However, while FD you can still be effected by AoE abilities (such as Tidewalker's earthquake) which can deal damage to you and put you back on the aggro list for the boss.


Short version: Unless you FD or Vanish when you are the very last person alive, you're quite likely to be Screwed Anyway. Now, if you can FD earlier so that you're likely last on aggro and have 30 seconds left before you need to FD ... ;)

I find it ironic that my raiding / heroic bills on my tank seem to be less than on my hunter. I don't get it, as it really doesn't make sense,but at least on "farm" content, the cost of damage repair (and maybe 1 death) seems to be less than the cost of arrows and pet food. Bizarre.


Actually, talking to some of my DPSers, I tend to have the lesser repair bills most of the time, good run or bad. It might be item level (which I doubt, but then again *shrugs*) I just like telling some of them to STFU when they bitch about cost, cause good run or bad, tanks will walk away with a repair bill
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Postby Nich » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:45 pm

Andox wrote:Isn´t it wise to take mining? Or am I wrong about the stamins buff, since I thought that mining over 375 gave a small stamina buff that added up to a pretty nice amount when you capped mining. I can see that it´s great for tanks. Every little stamina give me more time to live, so I enjoy the free stamina I can get from mining.
The stam buff from mining is nice. There are other professions that look to offer more, tho'.
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Re: Potion sickness V.2

Postby kurros » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:38 pm

1
Fridmarr wrote:Nothing smarter about not using pots in encounters that are designed for them. Players aren't going to get better because of this. That said, I like the change.


Some players will get smarter, and the ones that can't will quit raiding.

Bleeding edge content previously assumed and required chain potions. However, the earlier content did not. Scrub players could make it through by chain potting on this easier content that wasn't really supposed to require it. Now, all content will be designed on the assumption of 1 potion per encounter, so the scrubs that previously carried themselves along by chain potting in karazhan or gruuls are going to have to improve in WoTLK.

2


I think the change is great. Alchemists can cry all you want, but alchemy was the ONLY constant money making profession in BC, I don't really have any sympathy for you if you trained the profession just to make money. My characters are enchanters and jewelcrafters and while I did get a few nice tips overall the profession did not make very much consistent money, and to make that money i had to work the trade channel. None of that easymode make 10 flasks put them on the AH make 100g profit.

Your level 70 alchemy trinket is going to be obsolete in WoTLK? Guess what else is going to be obsolete? Everything else! It's kinda silly to make a big deal about your trinket when you should know perfectly well that level 80 5 man blues are going to be blowing away your T6 epics. Blizzard will probably give you a new trinket anyway, with a better bonus.

3

On the subject of repair costs, my paladins repairs were almost always lower than the average raider because I avoided every possible death by using DI. Not usually an option while I was tanking, but there were enough times where it was usable that it make a noticeable difference on repairs.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby Fivelives » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:46 pm

I think the reason why repair bills are higher for dps is because you've probably got healers that can keep your dps up for a little bit getting whacked on. One thing I've noticed (and this is all anecdotal) is that mail/leather/cloth durability goes down a LOT faster than plate (cloth faster than leather, leather faster than mail, etc). Perhaps it's a function of total armor, perhaps it's not, I don't know.
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Postby kurros » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:56 pm

Durability goes down from being in combat. It has nothing to do with actually being hit or not, the only exception that I know of is shields have a chance to lose durability on each block.


To test this theory, get a hunter and go to blasted lands. Put your bet on a servant mob, the kind that goes immune unless you kill it's totem. go after 30 minutes while your pet fights, come back and you will see your gear noticeably worse off even if you were just standing still the entire time, just because your pet put you in combat.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby Elsie » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:38 pm

I've used over 50 iron shield potions in a single night on M'uru. This is an amazing buff to a tank's wallet since you can't exactly 'wait' to iron shield like haste, mana, etc potions.

I don't think alchemists and herbalists will get hurt by the change. Flasks are still around. Hell, people will have saved so much money on potions they might {gasp} use elixirs more often. Inscription might require something from other non-gathering professions like enchanting sometimes does. Yes, a potion mastery alchemist might be a little screwed, but they could be redoing that anyway - we don't know.

Isn´t it wise to take mining? Or am I wrong about the stamins buff, since I thought that mining over 375 gave a small stamina buff that added up to a pretty nice amount when you capped mining. I can see that it´s great for tanks. Every little stamina give me more time to live, so I enjoy the free stamina I can get from mining.

Mining looks good till you realize Blacksmithing gives items and a new socket you can put a 35 gem in. Or JC with BoP items and JC-Only gems. Or enchanting with new ring enchants possibly more beneficial than 35 stam. Or inscription with an extra Major Glyph slot.

No, the gathering professions are still just money makers. It just no longer completely gimps your character now.
Last edited by Elsie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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