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Can I Haz Pretty Cyclez Plz?

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Pretty Cycles for Marcos?

Poll ended at Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:51 am

Yes Plz. I can savez teh kitties
23
28%
Too early to decide on TPS cyclez
12
14%
I want old-style million button, no cycle tankadin TPS
11
13%
Cake
16
19%
Pie
21
25%
 
Total votes : 83

Postby moduspwnens » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:50 pm

solina wrote:If I find any 1-button spammers in my raid, regardless of class.. they're not welcome in my raid anymore.


This is a bit harsh. BM Hunters do their best DPS by spamming a macro. In fact, it would be a nerf to the DPS and survival of the hunter to have to time steady shots between auto shots manually, I'd argue. By DPSing with one button, he can pay more attention to his boss mod, trinkets, potions, and staying out of fires.

If you don't like how this is designed, you're not alone, but it's not the hunter or warlock's fault, it's Blizzard's. They designed the game to be that way, so talk to them about it.
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:52 pm

BM hunters don't need a macro to spam steady shot mindlessly anymore, so it's a moot point.
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Postby moduspwnens » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:53 pm

PsiVen wrote:BM hunters don't need a macro to spam steady shot mindlessly anymore, so it's a moot point.


As in for WotLK or now?
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Postby Holyfuri » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:55 pm

The fact is any dps class currently is down to a single spammed rotation that consists primarily of one button. Warlocks and hunters have already been discussed. Mages and rogues are the same way. It's just the way the game is designed right now, that's one of the reasons I switched mains in the middle of T5 content, lol. I got tired of about falling asleep playing my rogue in TK and SSC.
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Postby Andryana » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
PsiVen wrote:BM hunters don't need a macro to spam steady shot mindlessly anymore, so it's a moot point.


As in for WotLK or now?


On WotLK only, auto-shop clipping will be removed, so they can spam shots without ever delaying the auto-shot.
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Postby SmurfZG » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:01 pm

CBH Please.
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Postby cordelia » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:18 pm

solina wrote:
There's nothing that can be achieved in a 1-button castseqence macro that can't be achieved by, oh, I don't know, actually pushing the buttons to activate each ability. This also encourages attentiveness and gives some opportunity to react to changes in the situation, rather than using the "drinking bird" to play for you while you watch TV / play with your DS / play with your iPhone / etc.


I beg to differ, significantly. There are two competing forces at play for most dps'ers: (1) dps (2) raid encounter execution. The more attention focused on the former, the less attention is left for the latter, and vice versa. Anything that can simplify the former to allow someone to perform better on the latter is a good thing, IMO. If I could simplify my threat cycle WITHOUT losing significant TPS, it would give me more time to pay attention to raid healing, raid health, raid execution, and make me a better raid leader. For almost all high level raid encounters, dps does other things than just "pure dps." If they can simplify their dps cycle so that they can better (a) stay alive, (b) get to their assigned positions in time, (c) not kill other raid members or wipe the raid from some boss mechanic, (d) execute their assigned task at the correct time, eg. interrupt, cc, debuff etc., then I'm 100% for it.
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Postby Andryana » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:29 pm

All i can say is that i raided for a long time as a BM hunter and i don't want to ever do it again because it bored me to oblivion.. and i didn't even used the famous macro.. still pretty much all i did was watching quartz and used steady/kill command... and i can see that WoTLK will be pretty much the same for hunters and i don't wanna do that anymore it really bored me, that's why i'm switching to my paladin.

I just find tanking/healing to be more fun and rewarding(just my opinion).
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Postby Blutreich » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:29 pm

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Going to spend my cab money on more shots and just take the ambulance home
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:45 pm

cordelia wrote:
solina wrote:
There's nothing that can be achieved in a 1-button castseqence macro that can't be achieved by, oh, I don't know, actually pushing the buttons to activate each ability. This also encourages attentiveness and gives some opportunity to react to changes in the situation, rather than using the "drinking bird" to play for you while you watch TV / play with your DS / play with your iPhone / etc.


I beg to differ, significantly. There are two competing forces at play for most dps'ers: (1) dps (2) raid encounter execution. The more attention focused on the former, the less attention is left for the latter, and vice versa. Anything that can simplify the former to allow someone to perform better on the latter is a good thing, IMO. If I could simplify my threat cycle WITHOUT losing significant TPS, it would give me more time to pay attention to raid healing, raid health, raid execution, and make me a better raid leader. For almost all high level raid encounters, dps does other things than just "pure dps." If they can simplify their dps cycle so that they can better (a) stay alive, (b) get to their assigned positions in time, (c) not kill other raid members or wipe the raid from some boss mechanic, (d) execute their assigned task at the correct time, eg. interrupt, cc, debuff etc., then I'm 100% for it.


If you learn your rotation manually you will eventually learn the subtleties and be able to execute it without watching it like a hawk. Then you can focus on situational awareness and raid leading.

If you mash randomly or rely on one-button macros while you pay attention to other things, you will never learn subtleties, always have to pay extra attention when things go awry, and can be downright bad at reacting to unexpected situations.

This applies to DPS as well. Great DPSers experiment and adapt to every situation to maximize effectiveness, tweaking anything that needs to be adjusted. Decent DPSers follow someone else's advice and do their best to imitate. Bad DPSers push what they think are the right buttons and are deeply concerned when Lurker starts spouting. Terrible DPSers mash buttons and die to every spout.
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Postby cordelia » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:48 pm

PsiVen wrote:If you learn your rotation manually you will eventually learn the subtleties and be able to execute it without watching it like a hawk. Then you can focus on situational awareness and raid leading.


I beg to differ, regarding this. Although it's true that you get better, but if blizzard had designed for us an easier rotation to begin with that we didn't have to manually learn, or manually implement, it would be better. For current paladin tanking, we have 10s Holy Shield CD, 8s Judgement, Reseal not necessarily after Judgement, 8s Consecration, sometimes 15s exorcism. If I want to maximize threat, I still have to watch cooldown timers and figure out which ability I should be using next, because there is no simple rotation. This takes away valuable attention that could be diverted to monitoring raid activity and raid leading. I don't have to "watch it like a hawk," but honestly, I'd much prefer to not have to watch it at all. I know a tankadin that uses a 10s cycle for all the abilities. That nerfs threat too much, for my tastes. But he also raid leads, and it allows him to concentrate more on raid leading. In a way he's lucky that his dps sucks, and doesn't have to push threat.
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Postby Melathys » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:00 pm

Equitas wrote:
solina wrote:If I find any 1-button spammers in my raid, regardless of class.. they're not welcome in my raid anymore.


warlocks?

2-2-2-2-2-6-2-2-2-2-2-6-2-2-2-2-6-2-2-2-6-2-2-2-2-2-6 ?


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Postby ydraw » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:31 pm

There's nothing that can be achieved in a 1-button castseqence macro that can't be achieved by, oh, I don't know, actually pushing the buttons to activate each ability.


You're wrong. Currently BM hunters achieve Max DPS with a macro. Game mechanics make it impossible to do without one.

If you refuse to use macros without having all the facts, chances are you're a terrible player. Macros are incredibly helpful for a lot of classes, and not using them because of some kind of "purist" reason is quite frankly retarded.

If I find any 1-button spammers in my raid, regardless of class.. they're not welcome in my raid anymore.


So you would have your warlocks lower their DPS by casting spells other than shadow bolt, just to satisfy your OCD rules? Glad I'm not in your raids.
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Postby guillex » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:27 pm

ydraw wrote:
There's nothing that can be achieved in a 1-button castseqence macro that can't be achieved by, oh, I don't know, actually pushing the buttons to activate each ability.


You're wrong. Currently BM hunters achieve Max DPS with a macro. Game mechanics make it impossible to do without one.


Gogo autoshot clipping. :(
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Postby Melathys » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:50 pm

moduspwnens wrote:
If you don't like how this is designed, you're not alone, but it's not the hunter or warlock's fault, it's Blizzard's. They designed the game to be that way, so talk to them about it.


What I wouldn't give for a game like wow with the combat system from FFXI.
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