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Warrior´s specialty?

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Postby Candiru » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:35 am

shockwave does stun as well though, so you can use it if you loose any mobs and then taunt them.

Bear in mind you stick Vigilance on your healer/AoE DPSer and taunt has no CD!

This means warriors can just spam taunt on everything to keep all the mobs on them.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:49 am

Lore wrote:
Norrath wrote:That guy also said warriors' #1 threat stat was Strength.

Take it with a grain of salt.


It is, in WotLK.

That comment was in relation to pre-WotLK content.

Ghostcrawler wrote:Strength is a good stat, and even before the shield block change, it was probably the best +threat stat you have.


And that's is just plain nuts.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:50 am

Candiru wrote:shockwave does stun as well though, so you can use it if you loose any mobs and then taunt them.

Bear in mind you stick Vigilance on your healer/AoE DPSer and taunt has no CD!

This means warriors can just spam taunt on everything to keep all the mobs on them.

You misunderstand how Vigilance works. Whenever the person who is affected by Vigilance is hit by an attack, your Taunt CD refreshes. This means you have to choose beforehand who draws aggro, otherwise you've just wasted it.

And Vigilance reduces their threat to boot.
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Postby Candiru » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:52 am

Well as a warrior in an AoE situation you know your AoE DPSer will draw agro, or your healer if you aren't AoEing the pack. Vigilance is a pro 10% threat reduction on them, as well as giving you unlimited taunts if they get attacked! And you can switch your vigilance target at will I think (at the moment anyway)
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Postby Gideon » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:54 am

The warrior feedback on shockwave that I've seen has generally had the following split:

*Those who tested it in TBC tank gear said it sucked.
*Those who tested it in TBC dps gear or WotLK tank gear said it rocked.

Looks like an AP dependent talent that's keyed into the new tank gearing paradigm to me.

Edit: As to niche, maybe warrior tanks are becoming like TBC priests? That is, the most versatile tank with better caster mitigation and counters than druids/paladins and better melee mitigation and counters than death knights (and paladins?). These niche discussions always complicate when we realise that warriors have a lot of gimmicks like spell reflect and fear counters while paladins can't tank while silenced.
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Postby Ubung » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:40 am

Several posts have mentioned the advantage paladins have tanking dual wielders / fast hitters. Now I am aware that we have several smaller advantages against fast hitter (more threat for example) but I thought the major reason to use a Paladin was because holy shield had more charges therefore we never got crushed.

Now as people are saying crushes are going to be removed from WOTLK so how is this gonna affect our "niche" tanking role? Even though we may be able to tank anything reasonably well.
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Postby Origon » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:46 am

Fast hitting boss hits you 10x in 10sec for 2k each hit, you block 600 each time, 1400*10. 14,000 damage taken

Slow hitting boss hits you 4x in 10 seconds for 5k each hit, you block 600 each time, 4400*4. 17,600 damage taken

With decent BV due to shield + str scaling, we should definitely take less damage from faster hitters, especially as our BV goes up. I'm thinking this niche will stay as ours as long as we keep our Holy Shield up. Coupled with the fact that a warrior shield block can no longer be constantly up

edit: math failures fixed
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:34 am

Norrath wrote:That guy also said warriors' #1 threat stat was Strength.

Take it with a grain of salt.
Well, it will be an important threat stat even more than it is now... O.o Think of it as block value*1,3 :p

Part of what he said just completes the deal that they've already stated on late BC: They do want tanks to have their specialties...but they also do want that gap to be small enough that any tank class can get it done. And that's what I'm seeing so far.


Norrath wrote:
Ghostcrawler wrote:Strength is a good stat, and even before the shield block change, it was probably the best +threat stat you have.


And that's is just plain nuts.
that it is
Last edited by Snake-Aes on Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:35 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Norrath wrote:That guy also said warriors' #1 threat stat was Strength.

Take it with a grain of salt.
Well, it will be an important threat stat even more than it is now... O.o Think of it as block value*1,3 :p

Part of what he said just completes the deal that they've already stated on late BC: They do want tanks to have their specialties...but they also do want that gap to be small enough that any tank class can get it done. And that's what I'm seeing so far.


:P

Norrath wrote:
Lore wrote:
Norrath wrote:That guy also said warriors' #1 threat stat was Strength.

Take it with a grain of salt.


It is, in WotLK.

That comment was in relation to pre-WotLK content.

Ghostcrawler wrote:Strength is a good stat, and even before the shield block change, it was probably the best +threat stat you have.


And that's is just plain nuts.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:38 am

I hate you for quoting before I could complete the message. I was too lazy to open tabs you know.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:40 am

Snake-Aes wrote:I hate you for quoting before I could complete the message. I was too lazy to open tabs you know.


<o
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Postby agamemnoch » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:26 am

Ubung wrote:Several posts have mentioned the advantage paladins have tanking dual wielders / fast hitters. Now I am aware that we have several smaller advantages against fast hitter (more threat for example) but I thought the major reason to use a Paladin was because holy shield had more charges therefore we never got crushed.

Now as people are saying crushes are going to be removed from WOTLK so how is this gonna affect our "niche" tanking role? Even though we may be able to tank anything reasonably well.


Warrior shield block doesn't have as many charges as holy shield. Holy Shield has more baseline charges and a threat increase if spec'd into it. With Str going 2=1 BV then you figure we will mitigate more damage since we will be removing say ~900 damage per hit instead of eating the full hit as often.

We may have lower HP at points and no "Last Stand" but we do have LoH at a 20 min cooldown as well as bubble wall. Considering that on a 3 hit cycle if the warrior ate 2 and blocked 1 and we blocked 2 and ate 1 we'd be ahead, perhaps.
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Postby bjorn » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:01 am

Snake-Aes wrote:I hate you for quoting before I could complete the message. I was too lazy to open tabs you know.


Maintankadin is all about dealing with the faster hitting posters. :)
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Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:08 am

The AoE tank is questionable.

DK and Paladins can AoEtank and allow for AoE.

Druids and Warriors can hold AoE aggro from healers, but not from a bunch of casters spamming Arcane Explosion and SoC.
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Postby Lore » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:15 am

Norrath wrote:
Lore wrote:
Norrath wrote:That guy also said warriors' #1 threat stat was Strength.

Take it with a grain of salt.


It is, in WotLK.

That comment was in relation to pre-WotLK content.


It technically gives the best return on threat currently as well, if you stack it. There's just no mitigation benefit compared to stats like +SBV, so it hasn't really been worked into itemization.

It's kind of like spell damage :P
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