Judgement system confusing the *** out of me.

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Judgement system confusing the *** out of me.

Postby Spiggless » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:25 pm

Could someone explain to me in detail exactly how the new judgement system works, ignoring the old one, as if I was a totally new player? I've seen like 10 different descriptions of how it works...
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Postby Seals » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:38 pm

There are 3 different Judgement spells, and they all put up a judgement debuff on the mob. Wisdom causes you to get mana back when you hit, Light causes you to get health back when you hit, and Justice causes the mob to not run away (and it also can't increase its movement speed with sprint or turning into a kitty).

Your judgement spell also does damage. The amount of damage it does is modified by the seal that you have active.
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Postby Spiggless » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:41 pm

Is the damage done by the judgements the same? And can they each be used without a seal up (though would be silly)?

What if you use seal of wisdom/light and judge, too?
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Postby Sharlos » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:45 pm

Spiggless wrote:Is the damage done by the judgements the same? And can they each be used without a seal up (though would be silly)?

What if you use seal of wisdom/light and judge, too?


whichever seal you use (light/wisdom/justice) overwrites whatever judgement u use.
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Postby Spiggless » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:52 pm

Thanks!
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Postby Akushi » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:03 pm

So seals are all basically the same just you don't need to have one up to judge it's effects in the case of Light/Wisdom/Justice ? other then that there is no real change ?

Seal of Light still only heals you, but when you judge it adds a bonus damage but doesn't apply the "old judgement" just the new one that you used be it Justice/Wisdom/Light ?
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Postby Makaijin » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:30 pm

Sharlos wrote:
Spiggless wrote:Is the damage done by the judgements the same? And can they each be used without a seal up (though would be silly)?

What if you use seal of wisdom/light and judge, too?


whichever seal you use (light/wisdom/justice) overwrites whatever judgement u use.


Is that how it is on beta right now? So using Seal of Light, then judging wisdom would judge Light instead of wisdom?

Logical thinking would say that with Seal on Light up, casting Judgement of Wisdom would still place the wisdom debuff on the target, and then each melee attack having a chance to proc both SoL healing and JoW mana returns, no?
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Postby Zalaria » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:44 pm

If you look at the spells, they say what judgements do when they're up. None say anything about debuffs, all say damage. No matter what seal you have up, the judgement spell you cast determines the debuff you place.

Some seals do more damage than others, or have different coefficients. That's all documented in the stickies.
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Postby Questioner » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:55 am

Sharlos wrote:
Spiggless wrote:Is the damage done by the judgements the same? And can they each be used without a seal up (though would be silly)?

What if you use seal of wisdom/light and judge, too?


whichever seal you use (light/wisdom/justice) overwrites whatever judgement u use.


That is not correct. Whatever seal you have up has NO effect on the debuff put on the mob.

Judgement type determines the debuff.
Seal type determines the amount of damage judgement causes.

So that means yes, If you are using SoW, using judgement of wisdom will cause damage. Its free damage over the old system! Woot!
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Postby Papewaio » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:10 am

Step 1: You activate a Seal
Step 2: You judge a mob

After Step 2, the following will happen:

Effect 1: You deal damage. Damage is a base value, possibly modified by the seal you have active (righteousness, blood, command and vengeance all deal more damage than the base effect)
Effect 2: You leave a debuff on the mob. The debuff depends on the judgment spell alone.

There are three different judgment spells:
Light
Wisdom
Justice

Except for scaling, they leave the same debuffs as judging those seals would right now. I.e. the new judgment of light spell will leave the judgment of light debuff, even if you have seal of righteousness active.

Judging also won't remove your seal, and seals last 2 minutes. Essentially, judgments and seals are almost separate things now.

If you're still in doubt, compare to a warrior's overpower:

Overpower requires that your opponent dodged in the last few seconds. All judgment spells require an active seal.

Overpower has a base effect, that can be modified by having, say, death wish or other effects active. Judgments have two base effects (debuff and damage), and the damage component is, likewise, modified by having a damage seal active.
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Postby Constantine » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:47 am

This will make it easier to get your head around:

You do not judge seals.

You have 7 Seals to use (self buffs), each basically does what it does now, but modified by the new game mechanics.

You have 3 Jugdements to use: Light, Wisdom, and Justice. You need a seal active to use any judgement, but they do not need to be the same seal, the the debuff applied will be the one associated with the judgement you use.

Judgements will now deal damage, and the amount of damage the judgement does is modified by which seal you have active.

Edited because I was wrong, and corrected to prevent further confusion.
Last edited by Constantine on Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby balrogg » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:58 am

im pretty sure you need a seal to judge.

to keep it simple:

judgement damage is modified by what seal you have active. other than that, the 2 skills are independent. ie, judging wisdom/light/justice will debuff the mob with wisdom/light/justice. whatever seal you have active will do whatever the seal does. ie:

you activate seal of light - melee attacks can proc the seal to heal you
you cast judgement of wisdom - wisdom debuff is put on the mob, chance on hit to restore mana

since seals last longer (2min), you still have light on you, with wisdom judged on the mob. the damage of whatever judgement you use is modified based on what seal you have active, but the debuff you get from judging is from the 3 types of judgements available.
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Postby Tev » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:03 am

I understand that all for the most part, but there is 1 thing I keep hearing 2 sides to.

Situation;

You cast (and have up) Seal of Light

You cast Judgment of Wisdom

Which debuff is applied, Judgment of Light, of Judgment of Wisdom?

Many people have said that with Seal of Light, you will always judge Judgment of Light, meaning that Seals of Light/Wisdom Override the Judgment you use, is this true or another falsehood?
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Postby Constantine » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:07 am

Wow, the thread to clear up the confusion about the Seals/Judgements bizness is actually making it more confusing for me.

(That's gay, I thought I had it figured out)
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Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:11 am

Tev wrote:I understand that all for the most part, but there is 1 thing I keep hearing 2 sides to.

Situation;

You cast (and have up) Seal of Light

You cast Judgment of Wisdom

Which debuff is applied, Judgment of Light, of Judgment of Wisdom?

Many people have said that with Seal of Light, you will always judge Judgment of Light, meaning that Seals of Light/Wisdom Override the Judgment you use, is this true or another falsehood?

That's incorrect.

The seal you have active has no influence on the judgement debuff you use. The judgement debuff is related only to the judgement skill you use.
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