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BoSanctuary - is it time to RIP??

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BoSanctuary - is it time to RIP??

Postby earanduin » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:43 pm

I think that many of you likely feel as I do that BoSanc is quite weak as both a Blessing and a 21st-point talent. Both the damage reduction and threat components actually scale negatively as your gear improves, which quite simply is ridiculous.

On a typical fight for me, BoSanc might account for 2% of my threat (we're at 4/5, 4/9).

In addition, even in fights where BoSanc could prove quite useful as a dmg reducing blessing (e.g. HLMalacrass on spirit bolts), Blizz has decided to not have it apply to incoming damage. And given that the melee dmg reduction is applied after armor, we again get less out of this blessing as we progress in the game.

As such, either they actually implement it's use in a wider spectrum of game content and scale the talent with gearing (i.e. it actually gets better as your gear gets better, perhaps also scaling with AP +/- SP), or just replace the talent with something else.

Thoughts?
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Postby Spiggless » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:55 pm

I'd like to see it just removed... Put what Divine Protection will become there instead.
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Postby Zalaria » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:57 pm

There was some discussion in this thread. Didn't really go anywhere beyond "yeah, we want something else" though.
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:05 pm

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=611

Rank 5 (Level 70) is the highest?

This would suck bad.
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Postby Karock » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:15 pm

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=611

Rank 5 (Level 70) is the highest?

This would suck bad.


That makes it rather sound like they aren't sure what they want to do with it.
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Postby Ano » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:46 pm

I'd say remove it, move something we currently have into its place... maybe slightly expand on that thingto give it a little boost.

It's not a cruicel blessing, and it gets rid of atleast a tiny amount of spec clutter.
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Postby Vorps » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:50 pm

It needs to become something that defines it as a Protection Paladin blessing in a raid. -80 damage is nowhere near on par with what other classes bring to raids. Even for self-use purposes it is pretty terrible and most of the time gets pushed aside for blessings that are more favorable.

Just making it mitigate a percentage of damage, or even just magical damage would make it quite desirable. Make the reflected holy damage scale better, and it's a solid 21 pt talent that allows Protection to provide it's share of unique raid-wide utility buffs.
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Postby Elsie » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:13 pm

Anyone else think this would be nice?

Replace BoSanc with Redoubt
Scale Holy Shield with BV
Put Shield Specialization where Imp. Holy Shield is

Thus you increase Holy Shield dmg and it's 6/8 instead of 10/8.
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Postby yawnslaught » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:34 pm

Now that I think of it, after reading the Holy Shield mana for blocking thread, I'd like to see holy shield stay the same, but have blessing of sanctuary provide some mana kickback for blocking.
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Postby Lemondish » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:33 pm

Spiggless wrote:I'd like to see it just removed... Put what Divine Protection will become there instead.


I'd rather have my 'oh shit' button baseline the way it is now. No need to give the devs the idea that we don't want a new exciting useful ability to fill out our toolbox.

Vorps wrote:It needs to become something that defines it as a Protection Paladin blessing in a raid.


We have Kings, Protection blessing for meh.

yawnslaught wrote:Now that I think of it, after reading the Holy Shield mana for blocking thread, I'd like to see holy shield stay the same, but have blessing of sanctuary provide some mana kickback for blocking.


We have Kings, nobody will ever want Sanctuary over Kings. In your situation, it'd be a wonderful solo/undergeared talent, but then we run into the same issue we have now with two talented blessing in the Protection tree and are always forced to choose one or the other. Each gets used only half the time.
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Postby Akushi » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:41 pm

Hand of Sanctuary 5% Base Mana 2min Coolldown

Increases the targets maximum life and armor by 15% for 12 seconds if the target goes below 35% dodge chance is increased 6%

or

Hand of Sanctuary 5% Base mana 5min Cooldown
applies forebearance to the target

Comes to the aid of a Party/Raid member by redirecting 45% of the damage to the Paladin, 15% of damage caused in this manner will be converted into holy energy surrounding the paladin which will be unleashed on the attacker dealing Holy Damage

Or something like that. it's not as good as a warriors Last stand so it doesn't have a 6min CD =p but it'd be really useful as you can save someone else with it or save yourself (well save some other tank haha)
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Postby Vorps » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:20 pm

I'm digging a Sanctuary into Last Stand type conversion.

Saying we have Kings is kind of only a half-truth since Ret and Holy can both get Kings if they want. By that logic Sanctuary should just be replaced by Kings.

Honestly, just remove both Kings and Sanctuary from the tree and make them baseline. Maybe buff Sanctuary up somehow. Then turn the 21 point talent into some form of Last Stand that has some utility for casting on allies, call it Hand of Sanctuary. Deal done.

Another idea for Hand of Sanctuary could be something that modifies Block Value. Not only would it provide more protection but also boost threat through Shield of Righteousness. (And hopefully Holy Shield once they figure out it needs to scale with something aside just spell power)

This could also help out with spell protection if Holy Shield were changed to also protect against spell attacks.
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ou

Postby Griffonheart » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:08 pm

Well, let's think of it this way.

Many popular builds would require players to make a big choice, either aim for high end talent or put part of the pts in another tree (i.e., Priest's Circle of Healing v.s. Divine Spirit). 21pts has to be good enough for the decision making to appear.

For paladin, Protection 21pt is never part of another tree's consideration. Ret would always pick Crusader Strike, but Holy paladin would never go that deep to get BoSanc. It sucks too bad, even tankadins are reluctant to take it if it wasn't a pre-req for HS.

And there are only 5 ranks of BoSanc atm. It's quite clear that Blizz will change its effect or utterly remove it and put something else there. If BoSanc made baseline, sure thing, as long as they put another talent there. Warriors got their Shield Slam baseline + another talent. We can have the same.

Has anyone in beta posted in the beta forum yet, regarding BoSanc?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board ... Id=7573195
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Postby Extermi » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:02 pm

My expectation is that Blizzard really simplifies Paladin blessings for 10 and 25 man content, where you will have anything from 1-3 Paladins. They already removed 2 blessings that were kind of superfluous and difficult to buff (Salvation especially) because each class needed a different one, I wouldnt be surprised if they also are to remove Sanctuary. This would leave 3 Buffs for 3 Paladins in a raid, quite simple. If you bring 2, just chose might/wisdom a bit more wisely.

Kings is the protection paladins defining blessing. Most holys will not spec into Prot anymore with the changes in the Ret tree, and even Ret will need a good reason to take more than Tier 1 in a pure PvE build. So its Kings for the Prot, (improved) Wisdom for the Holy and (improved) Might for the Ret.

Salvation is not needed, but what will replace it ? We all remember that Seal of Protection, that increases your health pool and, upon judging, debuffs the enemy. Maybe it will be something along these lines, after all we are missing 3 core tools:
- a Last Stand like ability to increase our HP
- a Demoshout like ability
- a Spell Interrupt that works against bosses

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Postby Gideon » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:10 am

My usual stance on this is that BoSanct is a 1 point toll I have to pay on the route to holy shield and I want it deleted from the game.

But making it a blessing that replicates the new warrior Stalwart Protector talent (but good plz) actually pricks my interest. Yes we'd have to choose between it and BoK but if I'm running some normal difficulty instance in my raid epics I probably don't need BoK as much.
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