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So what weapon for 3.0?..

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Postby Macha » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:25 pm

Candiru wrote:With some AP the difference becomes negligible.


On the contrary, the difference will never be negligible.
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Postby Candiru » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:48 pm

ok, so if we take two 100 DPS weapons, speed 1.5 and 2.6.

Hammer will hit for 150 and 260 every 6 seconds.

that's 110 difference, or 18 difference per s. So a 34TPS difference.

That's between the fastest possible and slowest possible weapons. For anything of speed 2.0 or faster the difference will less, and higher DPS weapons will cause more threat from the higher base damage.

As we gain loads of AP and spelldamage, doing 2k+ TPS a 34 TPS difference will be pretty negligible imho.

A 120 DPS 1.5 and a 100DPS 2.6:

Hammer will have a 13.3DPS = 25 TPS difference from hammer.

White damage will give 20DPS more.

5 TPS difference in favour of the slow weapon, but with slower stacking of vengeance and less damage done.

Just something to bear in mind :) A 1.5 and 2.6 is a pretty extreme comparison, but with 2.0+ weapons you will generally want the higher DPS one, rather than the slower one (unless you are using SoR)
Last edited by Candiru on Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lisson » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:48 pm

what about a Syphon from Sepremus?
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Postby Holyfuri » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:02 pm

Everyone is talking about using dps weapons for tanking...

What's wrong with using a higher dps tanking weapon, like a brutalizer?

Seriously, I think that whatever the speed is, there will be "tanking weapons" that we will, more than likely, share with warriors. They will probably resemble the weapons they use now to be hoenst, and I don't see much of a problem with them.
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Postby Norrath » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:07 pm

Holyfuri wrote:Everyone is talking about using dps weapons for tanking...

What's wrong with using a higher dps tanking weapon, like a brutalizer?


The fact that a lower ilevel DPS weapon will be better.
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Postby MomysLidlMonsta » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:36 pm

Norrath wrote:
Holyfuri wrote:Everyone is talking about using dps weapons for tanking...

What's wrong with using a higher dps tanking weapon, like a brutalizer?


The fact that a lower ilevel DPS weapon will be better.


better threatwise, but the tank weapon will nicely boost your survivability with more armor, avoidance, and/or stamina. There are many encounters where I would gladly give up measly 34TPS for let's say 2% more avoidance and I guess this won't change in WotLK.
Also any additional Stamina will give you some threat through spelldamage (not anywhere near 34TPS though^^).
Yet again using a slow weapon reduces the chance for parrygib.
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Postby Norrath » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:44 pm

Paladins are pretty used to having weapons without defensive stats on them. ;)

Also, don't forget that due to HotR being Holy damage, it is multiplied by 1.9.

But to be frank, it is quite likely that warriors will be using fast DPS weapons as well, rather than weapons like the Brutalizer.
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Postby Macha » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:48 pm

MomysLidlMonsta wrote:but the tank weapon will nicely boost your survivability


Marginally at best, though. Usually in the range of 1% avoid and/or some mitigation.
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Postby Salamandra » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:26 pm

It's not like having a tanking weapon which marginally improves your survivability is at all helpful in early WotLK, when you'll massively overgear everything if you're in the kind of position to get The Brutalizer. I went into Outland in levelling gear from 50s quests and greens and still tanked the first instances fine. I'll go into Northrend in mostly tier 6 gear. I won't be needing more survivability.
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Postby Holyfuri » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:17 pm

After I posted that I got to thinking. True, for endgame tanking I would probably prefer the 1% avoidance. Every upgrade is marginal at that level.

However, this thread is mostly aimed at our weapon while leveling, which in that case I really don't think I will be looking for more survivability, but indeed more threat. As far as a weapon at lvl 80 endgame, we'll just have to see what they come up with.
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Postby wantpizza » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:10 pm

Ok so HotR does 100% of weapon dmg... how does AP affect this keeping in mind we now stack str for bv and 1str=2ap?
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Postby Norrath » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:15 pm

wantpizza wrote:Ok so HotR does 100% of weapon dmg... how does AP affect this keeping in mind we now stack str for bv and 1str=2ap?


"100% weapon damage" means an instant attack. Non-normalized instant attacks deal damage according to

WD + WS*AP/14

where WD is "weapon damage" (average weapon damage is weapon DPS times it's speed) and WS is "weapon speed".

A normalized instant attack (for any 1H weapon that isn't a dagger) is

WD + 2.4*AP/14
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Postby halabar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:17 pm

Holyfuri wrote:However, this thread is mostly aimed at our weapon while leveling, which in that case I really don't think I will be looking for more survivability, but indeed more threat. As far as a weapon at lvl 80 endgame, we'll just have to see what they come up with.


Exactly. The question is: If we get 3.0 a month before shipment of WoLTK, what weapon(s) should we have ready? Level as Ret with 2H? Sword and board prot?..
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Postby Arthaal » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:56 am

I think some of us are forgetting that if we're discussing levelling as prot weapons the loss of 30 stam and 300 armor when sitting in full T6 or a mix of badge epics and Kara/ZA pieces will really not be felt. The content will afterall be tuned to a smooth fresh 70 to 80 progression. The fast 1.6 speed and low top end damage of both Brutalizer and The Unbreakable Will however will definately impact your already poor DPS.
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Postby Melathys » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:03 am

Norrath wrote:Paladins are pretty used to having weapons without defensive stats on them. ;)

Also, don't forget that due to HotR being Holy damage, it is multiplied by 1.9.

But to be frank, it is quite likely that warriors will be using fast DPS weapons as well, rather than weapons like the Brutalizer.


is HotR just 1.9?....or is the threat even higher? I wonder cause this is our only ability that "causes high threat". I think its safe to assume its at least 1.9 though.
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