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What enchant for prot now then??

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:54 am

Ulushnar wrote:So it does scale with Strength, ifyouknowwhatimean?


Indirectly through BV, yes...

I never said it didn't.
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Postby Lemondish » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:30 am

Norrath wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Zonzede wrote:
Lightbeard wrote:ima probaly be sticking to spell damage
..

When all of our abilities now scale with AP as well as SP, including Consecration, Seals, and Judgments, you may have to rethink this based on math when it's solidified
Based on what enchants will be available*
Unless htere's a "X str", "2X ap" or similars, X spell damage will be the enchant of choice


Why not Potency? We're talking about going INTO WotLK, not at the end of it. There will no doubt be a proper enchant at that point. Potency provides +20 Strength to a 1 hander, is relatively easy to acquire, and provides 40 AP for use on scaling our abilties and 10 Block Value.

Spell damage simply benefits a few of our abilities (some of which now scale better with AP).


Potency only represents half the itemization points Major Spellpower does. Our abilities scale both with AP and SP, but that scaling keeps in mind that AP costs half the itemization points that SP does.

Yes, Major Spellpower won't affect some of our abilities, but it will still be more bang for the buck.


Take a look at the coefficients to see how it relates.
20 strength is 40 attack power and major spell power is 40 spell power.
Many of the coefficients are percent based with the same value from both spell power and attack power. The only ones where this is not the case is Seal of Vengeance, which gains more from attack power, and Seal of Righteousness, which scales better with spell power. Holy Shield currently only scales with spell power, however, the benefit isn't worth reducing your chance to scale shield of righteousness (spell power does not give block value) and hammer of the righteous (spell power weapons, and spell power itself, does not scale weapon damage).
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:56 am

Mongoose is a terrible choice as always, executioner even worse.

After kings and divine strength, 20 STR is 76% of the budget of 40 SP. Judging by the coefficients I would say that SP is still better single-target until you hit 75 for ShoR and switch to SoV. Multi-target, 20 STR is better hands-down due to HotR and Consecration scaling being the primary concerns.

But at 80, we don't yet have a strength to weapon enchant. 55 SP looks to be slightly better than 20 STR but much worse than 90 AP. Hoping for a 26 STR or big bad holy damage enchant to show up, personally.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:21 am

Lemondish wrote:Take a look at the coefficients to see how it relates.
20 strength is 40 attack power and major spell power is 40 spell power.
Many of the coefficients are percent based with the same value from both spell power and attack power. The only ones where this is not the case is Seal of Vengeance, which gains more from attack power, and Seal of Righteousness, which scales better with spell power. Holy Shield currently only scales with spell power, however, the benefit isn't worth reducing your chance to scale shield of righteousness (spell power does not give block value) and hammer of the righteous (spell power weapons, and spell power itself, does not scale weapon damage).


You're forgetting Judgement (which is .36xAP + .58xSP), as well as the SoV proc (.012xWSxSP), and Consecration and Retribution aura (unfortunately I don't have any numbers for these last two, yet I know they scale with SP and possibly AP).
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:33 am

Norrath wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Zonzede wrote:
Lightbeard wrote:ima probaly be sticking to spell damage
..

When all of our abilities now scale with AP as well as SP, including Consecration, Seals, and Judgments, you may have to rethink this based on math when it's solidified
Based on what enchants will be available*
Unless htere's a "X str", "2X ap" or similars, X spell damage will be the enchant of choice


Why not Potency? We're talking about going INTO WotLK, not at the end of it. There will no doubt be a proper enchant at that point. Potency provides +20 Strength to a 1 hander, is relatively easy to acquire, and provides 40 AP for use on scaling our abilties and 10 Block Value.

Spell damage simply benefits a few of our abilities (some of which now scale better with AP).


Potency only represents half the itemization points Major Spellpower does. Our abilities scale both with AP and SP, but that scaling keeps in mind that AP costs half the itemization points that SP does.

Yes, Major Spellpower won't affect some of our abilities, but it will still be more bang for the buck.


Well, you'll get the AP scaling plus ShoR and HotR are both affected by Str. It's probably impossible to say which is better at this point since we don't know what proportion of threat comes from where in a typical battle. Depending on Divine Strength and Shield Spec, you may even get some double dipping off of it, plus Kings.

It's moot anyhow, it's likely none of those will be used at level 80.
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Postby Tev » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:39 am

Forget all that, I'm getting Fiery!... or maybe lifestealing.
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Postby Lemondish » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:50 am

Norrath wrote:
Lemondish wrote:Take a look at the coefficients to see how it relates.
20 strength is 40 attack power and major spell power is 40 spell power.
Many of the coefficients are percent based with the same value from both spell power and attack power. The only ones where this is not the case is Seal of Vengeance, which gains more from attack power, and Seal of Righteousness, which scales better with spell power. Holy Shield currently only scales with spell power, however, the benefit isn't worth reducing your chance to scale shield of righteousness (spell power does not give block value) and hammer of the righteous (spell power weapons, and spell power itself, does not scale weapon damage).


You're forgetting Judgement (which is .36xAP + .58xSP), as well as the SoV proc (.012xWSxSP), and Consecration and Retribution aura (unfortunately I don't have any numbers for these last two, yet I know they scale with SP and possibly AP).


But you're also forgetting that we gain SP from Stamina as well. Not nearly in the same amounts as we would if we stacked it, but I don't see spell power becoming THE Protection Paladin threat stat like it is now. That was undeniably the worst part of the Paladin because Spell Power only increases threat and NOTHING else. Now we have Strength which helps our mitigation and threat, and Stamina which (talented) affects our effective health and threat.

But this is more of a discussion on what enchants to use. I still think strength would be the best overall increase in stats across the board, affecting every skill and ability we have save Holy Shield.
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Postby Norrath » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:59 am

Lemondish wrote:But you're also forgetting that we gain SP from Stamina as well. Not nearly in the same amounts as we would if we stacked it, but I don't see spell power becoming THE Protection Paladin threat stat like it is now. That was undeniably the worst part of the Paladin because Spell Power only increases threat and NOTHING else. Now we have Strength which helps our mitigation and threat, and Stamina which (talented) affects our effective health and threat.

But this is more of a discussion on what enchants to use. I still think strength would be the best overall increase in stats across the board, affecting every skill and ability we have save Holy Shield.

Oh, trust me; I don't want SP to be a stat we want to stack. I still think it's the better of our current crop of threat enchants going into WotLK, though.
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Postby thegreatheed » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:03 am

Lemondish wrote:
But this is more of a discussion on what enchants to use. I still think strength would be the best overall increase in stats across the board, affecting every skill and ability we have save Holy Shield.



It will matter what and if Blizzard does to our gear. If they keep t6 and sunwell drops with SP, then SoR + SP weapon enchant will be best, probably until 75 and SotR. And to use your terminology, SP will effect every skill and ability we have save Hammer until 75.

If our gear is changed so that all the SP -> STR, then SoV, and 20 str will scale best for leveling.
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Postby praetorae » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:52 am

Just checking though the MMO-champion professions lists and came across some of the new weapon enchants for WotLK.

Exception Spellpower

Greater Savagery

Scourgebane

So, 55 spelldamage, +90 AP always (tooltip does not mention 2h weapons only - Yay) or +140 AP, but only against Undead.

Unless like 95% of mobs/bosses in end-game raids turn out to be undead (quite possible I suppose) we will need to get 2 endgame 'DPS' tanking weapons and swap between them depending whether the mob is undead or not.

Although I guess we need some theory-crafting to determine whether +55 SP or +90 AP will provide the biggest threat boost with our new AP and SP co-efficients on abilities. But its too early in the morning here atm to do math!
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Postby Sark » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:09 pm

Dead horse...meet stick!

deathfrost...am i the only one who likes this thing?
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Postby Spacemagic » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:32 am

MINOR BEASTSLAYING FTW!
HAVE YOU SEEN THE FRIGGIN GLOW :)
j/k---methinks we should 'chant to the strength of the weapon, like spellpower on an AE tanking spellpower weapon, or +STR on out physical dmg weapon (I like STR because it's more damage, plus BV)
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Postby Galannor » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:14 pm

Anyone considered the new lifesteal in xpac? forgot the name.

Edited: Lifeward is the name
Last edited by Galannor on Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Andox » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:16 pm

Sark wrote:Dead horse...meet stick!

deathfrost...am i the only one who likes this thing?


Maybe HotR procc Deathfrost aswell? :twisted:
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Postby DeadMilliken » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:13 pm

Norrath wrote:
You're forgetting Judgement (which is .36xAP + .58xSP), as well as the SoV proc (.012xWSxSP), and Consecration and Retribution aura (unfortunately I don't have any numbers for these last two, yet I know they scale with SP and possibly AP).


And your forgetting that most seals have different Judgement Co-Effs.
(*Seal of Blood for example is based off Weapon damage ranges)

(*the 3 judgement spells themselves have no co-eff, they just determine the added effect along with the damage)

JoV co-eff:
(1 + 0.28 * SPH + 0.175 * AP) *(1 + (10% per stack))

JoR:
[1 + 0.25 * AP + 0.4 * SPH

JoB:
0.45 * mw + 0.2 * AP + 0.32 * SPH

JoL / JoW:
1 + 0.32 * SPH + 0.2 * AP

Also Judgement is one of our lower sources of threat in our rotation.

And the AP is scaled by two factors (kings/Div Str).

The normal SoV stack formula
[(0.016 * SPH + 0.032 * AP) * Stack#]

To put this into perspective:

40spellpower gives SoV 3.2 more damage 5 stacked and
JoV 16.8 more damage 5 stacked

20str*kings*divstr= 50ap 12.5 block value.

50ap gives SoV 8 more damage 5 stacked and
JoV 13.1 dmg.


Over the coarse of 9seconds
3 ticks of SoV happened
1 JoV happened.

50ap provied 37.1 damage extra
40sp provided 26.4 damage extra.

POTENCY IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN SPELLDAMAGE with SoV / JoV ;)
SoV is always better than SoR unless you are tanking in healer / caster plate.
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