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Seal of Corruption now destroys SoR :(

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Seal of Corruption now destroys SoR :(

Postby d503 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:30 am

Having been only a Horde Tankadin, I've never gotten the joys of Seal of Vengeance (I much prefer the name Corruption!).

I'm basing this post off the new patch notes for 8681 that were released:

- Seal of Righteousness deals damage based on weapons peed plus an amount based on attack power and spell power, increases Judgement damage by 25%.
- Seal of Vengeance damage over time effect duration increased to 18 seconds and now applies its effect on every swing, causes damage based on attack power and spell power, and increases Judgement damage by 10% per stack of the damage over time effect.

For single target tanking (and even small multiple target tanking), the judgement damage increase on a fully stacked target is DOUBLE that of Righteousness, making this an amazing single-target Seal/Judge combo.

I'm sure this has been established before, but I've been very happy using Corruption while leveling (I'm trying to avoid using the JoJustice "bug" to assist in leveling quickly).

One thing I do too, is if I'm fighting multiple mobs, and I get a 5stack on one, I'll switch to another, and then just maintain my 5stack with HotR, which is very efficient for both tanking and leveling on multiple targets.

Also, this is the build I'm leveling with. I'm 73 at the moment: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=scZx0tIx0zGgoeRhoxf
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Re: Seal of Corruption now destroys SoR :(

Postby Equitas » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:35 am

d503 wrote: - Seal of Righteousness deals damage based on weapons peed plus an amount based on attack power and spell power, increases Judgement damage by 25%.


huh?
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Re: Seal of Corruption now destroys SoR :(

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:36 am

Equitas wrote:
d503 wrote: - Seal of Righteousness deals damage based on weapons peed plus an amount based on attack power and spell power, increases Judgement damage by 25%.


huh?


What is 5 Stacks * 10%? Right, 50%

SoV did outperform SoR in BC. Now it just does it even more. Where is the problem?
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Postby ulushnar » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:36 am

It's been buffed as I understand to automatically add a stack on every swing. In live atm, it's a chance on hit to add a stack. It definately does more threat once it's up, the downside is it can take a while to get that five-stack rolling, which means you lose some burst threat.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:37 am

The damage on JoR has been increased so it's not totally outperformed by SoV/JoV?
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:44 am

Nope, nothing has changed. We are thinking about old mechanics and applying it to the new ones incorrectly.

The way it works now:

SoW/SoL/SoJ when judged do a base "judgement" damage. SoR increases on that value by 25%, and SoV increases on that value by 50% (5 stack)

Remember "judgement" doesn't have the same meaning it used to. It is it's own beast in terms of damage. The various seals now modify the base damage accordingly.
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:46 am

To quote someone on EJ:

Judgement of Light/Wisdom/Justice all deal (58% SP + 36% AP). Let's call this Base Judgement Damage (BJD)
Judgement of Blood/Martyr deals BJD, plus 45% weapon damage
Judgement of Command deals BJD, plus 30% weapon damage
Judgement of Righteousness deals 125% of BJD
Judgement of Vengeance/Corruption deals 110% of BJD at one stack, and 150% of BJD at 5 stacks
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:49 am

jere wrote:To quote someone on EJ:

Judgement of Light/Wisdom/Justice all deal (58% SP + 36% AP). Let's call this Base Judgement Damage (BJD)
Judgement of Blood/Martyr deals BJD, plus 45% weapon damage
Judgement of Command deals BJD, plus 30% weapon damage
Judgement of Righteousness deals 125% of BJD
Judgement of Vengeance/Corruption deals 110% of BJD at one stack, and 150% of BJD at 5 stacks


that's nucking futs. JoCand JoB are getting tons of double-dip AP damage. Junktons even. Like 36% + 45%*((AP*WS)/14)
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Postby Lore » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:49 am

So, thoughts on seal twisting? Seems like it might not be worth it if you're missing out on a bunch of Judgement damage.
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:53 am

Yeah it took a bit to wrap my head around this but I quickly got the hang of it; 2k crit Judgments with Seal of Corruption is pretty nice for leveling and the fact that HotR keeps it up on multiple mobs makes it fantastic for multi-mob grinding and tanking.

I dare say I really really like these changes when I play live I feel so gimped compared to my Beta character; the Judgment change is well done and yeah once you get that full stack up you can do some serious damage with Corruption/Vengeance.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:54 am

Vanifae wrote:Yeah it took a bit to wrap my head around this but I quickly got the hang of it; 2k crit Judgments with Seal of Corruption is pretty nice for leveling and the fact that HotR keeps it up on multiple mobs makes it fantastic for multi-mob grinding and tanking.

I dare say I really really like these changes when I play live I feel so gimped compared to my Beta character; the Judgment change is well done and yeah once you get that full stack up you can do some serious damage with Corruption/Vengeance.


Agreed
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:55 am

Lore wrote:So, thoughts on seal twisting? Seems like it might not be worth it if you're missing out on a bunch of Judgement damage.


I am not totally sold on it going away completely. I would be interested in the effects of trading one GCD every 12-15 seconds to keep a 5 stack of SoV up while using SoR/JoR.

I believe SoR will still beat SoV. While the judgement for SoV is obviously superior, the dps/tps coefficients for SoR are even better. I think the overall combo of SoR/JoR will beat out SoV/JoV even though JoV > JoR.
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Postby lesurk » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:56 am

I hope it does turn out better than SoR. Having a useless spell for 1 year was enough for me. I don't need it to be useless again.

SoV for tanking.
SoB for raid dps.
SoC for pvp.
SoR for holy or leveling.

That's the way it should be imo.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:56 am

SoV never outperformed SoR in raids due to bad proc rates, resists, and worse scaling. Now it looks like it may be the seal of choice for bosses, but what about things that die fast? With HotR proccing seals we will see (with a 2.6 weapon), assuming nothing misses:

0.0 HotR+Swing (2)
2.6 Swing (3)
5.2 Swing (4)
6.0 HotR (5)

And with a 1.8 weapon:

0.0 H+S (2)
1.8 S (3)
3.6 S (4)
5.4 S (5)

So weapon speed is basically not a consideration anymore for a single-target. Avenging Wrath usually waits for the second judgement cooldown anyway in current raids, so it shouldn't be much trouble to wait even if you miss a few swings. Against 3 targets:

2.6 speed:
0.0 HotR+Swing (211)
2.6 Swing (311)
5.2 Swing@2 (321)
6.0 HotR (432)
7.8 Swing@2 (442)
10.4 Swing@3 (443)
12.0 HotR (554)
13.0 Swing@3 (555)

1.8 speed:
0.0 HotR+Swing (211)
1.8 S (311)
3.6 S@2 (321)
5.4 S@2 (331)
6.0 H (442)
7.2 S@3 (443)
9.0 S@3 (444)
10.8 S (544)
12.0 H (555)

1.6 speed:
0.0 HotR+Swing (211)
1.6 S (311)
3.2 S@2 (321)
4.8 S@2 (331)
6.0 H (442)
6.4 S@3 (443)
8.0 S@3 (444)
9.6 S@3 (445)
10.2 S@1 (545)
11.8 S@2 (555)

The time to stack on 3 targets is nearly negligible as well.
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Postby lesurk » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:58 am

Lore wrote:So, thoughts on seal twisting? Seems like it might not be worth it if you're missing out on a bunch of Judgement damage.


With 2 minute seal durations, judgement not consuming seals, and high seal mana cost. I think they intend people to pick a seal for a situation and stick with it.
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