Remove Advertisements

Tanking Classes Compilation for WotLK - Last update 17 OCT

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:23 pm

There's a couple confused posts about scaling here
1: All our old spells still scale with spell power, but also with attack power. Exception is holy shield which just takes SP
2: Shield of righteousness takes block value only
3: Hammer takes only attack power

str gives both ap and bv so it works for all our stats except holy shield
Stam gives us spell damage.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Olsonic » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:There's a couple confused posts about scaling here
1: All our old spells still scale with spell power, but also with attack power. Exception is holy shield which just takes SP
2: Shield of righteousness takes block value only
3: Hammer takes only attack power

str gives both ap and bv so it works for all our stats except holy shield
Stam gives us spell damage.


thank you for being so to the point. I've noticed you post on these boards a lot, so you obviously know a thing or two about protection paladin. I am new to posting on these boards.. but have played paladin for a long time.

My question to you is.. do we know enough about the gear available in WotLK to assume that pally tanks are going to be wielding +STR +AP weapons, instead of +spell power?


Am I the only paladin that wishes blizzard wasn't so opposed to giving us +spell power +strength plate to remove the confusion?
Olsonic
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Postby Obrimos » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:49 pm

Olsonic wrote:Am I the only paladin that wishes blizzard wasn't so opposed to giving us +spell power +strength plate to remove the confusion?


Spell Power just isn't necessary for us anymore. I imagine even Holy Shield will get an AP conversion or SBV conversion.

Why?

They want us to gear like warriors and DKs so they don't have to put that much tanking plate in the game. So they don't have to clutter up loot tables.

It may also be for lore-ish reasons. We are Paladins, traditional knightly-types. We shouldn't be using caster-maces, we should be using tanking swords.

On top of that, AP returns much better threat per point that SP does last I checked. That's why SoV/SoCr is top damage for Retadins at the moment.
Image
Obrimos
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: SoCal

Postby Olsonic » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:05 pm

Obrimos wrote:
It may also be for lore-ish reasons. We are Paladins, traditional knightly-types. We shouldn't be using caster-maces, we should be using tanking swords.

On top of that, AP returns much better threat per point that SP does last I checked. That's why SoV/SoCr is top damage for Retadins at the moment.


I see. I actually agree with the switch when you put it in context of the lore.
interesting note on the current beta ret stuff.. thanks for the info
Olsonic
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Postby Selinaria » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:41 pm

Obrimos wrote:Why?

They want us to gear like warriors and DKs so they don't have to put that much tanking plate in the game. So they don't have to clutter up loot tables.



^This.

Blizzard intents to homogenize gear so if the "great tanking plate" drop comes, the DK AND the warrior AND the pally all want it. They do not want the scenario where the warrior tank isn't present, and thus the great tanking drop is sharded because the DK and pally are not interested.

Less sharded loot and less overall confusion with the current possible scenario "Who deserves that more the pally or the warrior". The Tier pieces will likely be the only unique itemization for tanking gear while every other piece could go to any of the 3 classes.

Strength = threat for all 3 from increased damage output.
Strength = mitigation/avoidance for all 3 (SBV for pally/warriors and parry for DKs)

And then the rest of the stats are pretty much globally wanted with the exception of pieces involving shield usage in some way not being wanted by DKs.

But this is still all up in the air, gotta wait and see Tier sets, itemization at 80, etc. before I am 100% confident I know what's going on at the moment.

Edit: And by the way, great post Sartor :D
Selinaria was suddenly surrounded by a gang of sharks, a cracked bat as her only protection!
Image
User avatar
Selinaria
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 am
Location: Burlington,Ontario, Canada

Postby Vesper » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:39 pm

Feral tank skill change in most recent build:

Swipe now hits 4 targets. (Up from 3.)

Some of the new feral talents not listed here should also be very helpful for TPS.

Mangle boost (primary bear move when not on cd):

Feral tier 9 -- Improved Mangle Reduces the cooldown of your Mangle (Bear) ability by 1/1.5 sec., and reduces the energy cost of your Mangle (Cat) ability by 4/6.

Maul boost (feral rage dump): Reduces the cooldown of your Mangle (Bear) ability by 1/1.5 sec., and reduces the energy cost of your Mangle (Cat) ability by 4/6.

Feral tier 10 -- Rend and Tear Increases damage done by your Maul and Shred attacks on bleeding targets by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%, and increases the critical strike chance of your Ferocious Bite ability on bleeding targets by 10%/20%/30%/40%/50%.

***

Situational tps booster:

Feral tier 8 -- King of the Jungle While using your Enrage ability in Bear Form or Dire Bear Form, your damage is increased by 5%/10%/15%, and your Tiger's Fury ability also instantly restores 20/40/60 energy.
User avatar
Vesper
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:03 pm

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:52 pm

If that can interest you (and i don't know if it has been mentioned yet) someone on EJ posted some tests regarding the threat modifiers.

Hotr and ShoR appear to have a 20% bonus threat component.
Avenger Shield also appeared to be given a 20% threat bonus component.

I'll seek the post later when i'm less asleep, it's in the over nine thousand pages of the wotlk modifies for paladins <.<
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13348
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Sartor » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:49 am

Worldie wrote:If that can interest you (and i don't know if it has been mentioned yet) someone on EJ posted some tests regarding the threat modifiers.

Hotr and ShoR appear to have a 20% bonus threat component.
Avenger Shield also appeared to be given a 20% threat bonus component.

I'll seek the post later when i'm less asleep, it's in the over nine thousand pages of the wotlk modifies for paladins <.<


ok, cool. :)

I will take a look as well.
Image
User avatar
Sartor
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:47 am

Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:29 am

From the very first post (they updated it)

Protection

* Shield of Righteousness

Requires level 75
6% of base mana, 5 yard range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown, Requires Shields

Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.



According to testing by Chicken, the holy damage from this ability generates 120% of normal threat.

* Hammer of the Righteous

Talented; requires 50 points in Protection talents
6% of base mana, 5 yard range, Instant cast, 6 sec cooldown, Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon

Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing current weapon damage as Holy damage. This ability causes high threat.



This appears to be based exclusively on weapon damage with no spellpower coefficient. Like Avenger's Shield, it will not jump to crowd-controlled (polymorph, sap, etc) targets. It appears not to use normalized Attack Power, so the damage gain from using a slower weapon is very significant. This effect triggers the current seal on all targets. The range limit for the bounce targets appears to be about the same as for Avenger's Shield, so the second and third targets can be out of melee range. According to testing by Chicken, the holy damage from this ability generates 120% of normal threat.



Avenger's Shield cast time reduced to .5 seconds, duration increased to 10 seconds. According to testing by Chicken, damage caused by this spell now generates 120% of normal threat.


Linkage: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t28560-pala ... iscussion/
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13348
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Olsonic » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:18 am

Worldie


thanks for the info. Interesting.. sure looks like I was way off-base suggesting spell damage could still be considered as a main stat for threat
Olsonic
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:30 am

Olsonic wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:There's a couple confused posts about scaling here
1: All our old spells still scale with spell power, but also with attack power. Exception is holy shield which just takes SP
2: Shield of righteousness takes block value only
3: Hammer takes only attack power

str gives both ap and bv so it works for all our stats except holy shield
Stam gives us spell damage.


thank you for being so to the point. I've noticed you post on these boards a lot, so you obviously know a thing or two about protection paladin. I am new to posting on these boards.. but have played paladin for a long time.

My question to you is.. do we know enough about the gear available in WotLK to assume that pally tanks are going to be wielding +STR +AP weapons, instead of +spell power?


Am I the only paladin that wishes blizzard wasn't so opposed to giving us +spell power +strength plate to remove the confusion?
Nah, I just spam a lot where i'm allowed to.
As answered already, our scaling will fit str/ap better so the itemization can be condensed, reducing the amount of "tide stompers do not exist" clubs and the like(these boots are a classic example. 7% drop rate!)
We have yet to see al lvl 80 gear but i don't think it'll deviate from that.
A few discussions rose on the crafted gear since the sp weapon gave so much sp that it matched the bonus of the ap weapon, but i'm not following those threads.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Origon » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:57 am

My apologies if this has been listed before, but why are there two different values for spellhit rating and hit rating, have the stats not been combined into one? Which of the two values would be the one to work with in determining hit rating needed to be hit-capped with either a 1h (and shield) or a 2h weapon?
User avatar
Origon
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 pm

Postby Sartor » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:13 am

Origon wrote:My apologies if this has been listed before, but why are there two different values for spellhit rating and hit rating, have the stats not been combined into one? Which of the two values would be the one to work with in determining hit rating needed to be hit-capped with either a 1h (and shield) or a 2h weapon?


I assume you are referring to the first post on the point with the level mile-stone ratings.

It has been mentioned somewhere that rating gives both spell and melee/ranged rating - just the amount required is different for some stats.
Image
User avatar
Sartor
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:47 am

Postby Origon » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:17 am

Would one simply disregard the spellhit rating value for lvl 80 then? (i'm looking at the table near the bottom) and just go off the hit rating number? simply curious as to why the spellhit rating number there is different from hit (if they are the same) or simply blank due to the merge

I currently see them as
32.78998947 hit rating
26.23199272 spellhit rating
User avatar
Origon
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 pm

Postby Rasmfrackn » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:57 am

Worldie wrote:From the very first post (they updated it)

Protection

...

The range limit for the bounce targets appears to be about the same as for Avenger's Shield, so the second and third targets can be out of melee range.



Linkage: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t28560-pala ... iscussion/


Huh. That's kinda nice. I was expecting it to be as short-range as cleave.
Rasmfrackn
Dwarf Paladin
Icecrown Server
Eng/Scribe/Masochist
User avatar
Rasmfrackn
 
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest
?php } else { ?