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What's the deal with dodge/parry/block now?

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Postby Mortehl » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:09 am

Right now, I'd give my left testicle for a working bag mod on the beta...
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Postby solina » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 am




Is it just me, or is this item the exact opposite of a mitigation cloak?
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Postby Modal » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:39 am

I think it's just you.
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Postby solina » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:30 am

Modal wrote:I think it's just you.


Armor - base amount for item level. Nothing additional.
Strength - threat
Stamina - EH
Dodge - avoidance

Where's the mitigation?
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:32 am

Mortehl wrote:Right now, I'd give my left testicle for a working bag mod on the beta...

QFT :\
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Zx » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:37 am

I'm pretty sure that with the I lvls going up we will see more of the EH stats or more threat stats. Bizzard cannot afford to increase the amoud of avoidance stats that are on an item too much because it would result in having some silly thing like 100% dodge.
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Postby Splug » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:38 am

PsiVen wrote:I'm writing an addon that shows on the tooltip a standardized threat contribution from an item to your current gear vs. a few different numbers of targets. Don't wait up for it though, I may be good with numbers but I know jack about lua :P
I was looking at pretty much doing the same for a warrior invisible-threat calculation mod, but ran into the same problem (LUA is not C?! What the heck are these variant local variables?) ... so I wrote something much simpler in an effort to learn enough about lua to eventually do something I feel will actually be useful to me. I saw you posted a mod in the ROFL section; was it enough to get you onto the list for a beta key (assuming they ever get them to hand out...), or is that the cause for the second mod's design?

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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:42 am

solina wrote:
Modal wrote:I think it's just you.


Armor - base amount for item level. Nothing additional.
Strength - threat
Stamina - EH
Dodge - avoidance

Where's the mitigation?

errr
Strength is also mitigation, remember? That cloak has 13 block value before talents.

I don't think blizz works with the same terms we do. Mitigating is reducing an incoming effect, in this case, damage.
Over a combat, you are avoiding attacks, therefore taking less damage. It's a valid way of thinking about mitigation.It's just not what we use, given we separate real "ok, I took the hit, now make it smaller" and "haha you can't touch me!" effects into names that also are valid, mitigation and avoidance.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:44 am

Zx wrote:I'm pretty sure that with the I lvls going up we will see more of the EH stats or more threat stats. Bizzard cannot afford to increase the amoud of avoidance stats that are on an item too much because it would result in having some silly thing like 100% dodge.
Not really, Z, remember that at level 80, our dodge rating -> dodge% won't be 18:1%, but probably something like 25:1% or even 32:1%. We'll have to spend more points to have the same avoidance.
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Postby Zx » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:45 am

True, you may see increased numbers by a bit but still likely that the percentile avoidance that we have will not change much.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:50 am

Splug wrote:
PsiVen wrote:I'm writing an addon that shows on the tooltip a standardized threat contribution from an item to your current gear vs. a few different numbers of targets. Don't wait up for it though, I may be good with numbers but I know jack about lua :P
I was looking at pretty much doing the same for a warrior invisible-threat calculation mod, but ran into the same problem (LUA is not C?! What the heck are these variant local variables?) ... so I wrote something much simpler in an effort to learn enough about lua to eventually do something I feel will actually be useful to me. I saw you posted a mod in the ROFL section; was it enough to get you onto the list for a beta key (assuming they ever get them to hand out...), or is that the cause for the second mod's design?

-Splug


Nah, the Captain America one was too simple. I'm working on something a little less involved than tooltip hooking that I should be able to finish soon though.
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Postby Boldbeard » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:55 am

hi, first post. Love this forum.


I would think that with the new STR > BV formula that we'd like to see more BR. If BR is higher, we block more and generate more threat and if it's possible to see BV over 1k and beyond at lvl 80, why wouldnt block rating be a better stat for us, given that we have talents that give us 30+30 on that stat. I'm not a huge number cruncher, althouth I like to study other's numbers. It just seems a much higher BV makes blocking a much more attractive mitigation mechanic, and for us we get the added benefit of more threat as well.

If we already get 5 to parry and dodge via talents, BR on gear would be more attractive if what I am saying above is true.
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Postby Splug » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:05 pm

PsiVen wrote:Nah, the Captain America one was too simple. I'm working on something a little less involved than tooltip hooking that I should be able to finish soon though.
Ah, I see. I heard the big fallpoint is that the mod submissions need to not fall into the "rofl" category - anything in there is subject to being judged insufficient. I'm hearing Friday is the expected date for the keys to start going out; to be honest, I think at this point I'm more interested in learning LUA just to ... learn LUA, than to actually get a beta key or produce the mod I'm working on.

Anyway - I doubt we'll be seeing the 1k+ block value that's achievable in TBC equipment. If the current gear doesn't get modified it may be usable as a gimmick, but due to cross-class gear sharing, it's unlikely off-set gear will include block value or rating as it is worthless for deathknights. Also, the scaling coefficient on shield of the righteous would make for some truly absurd numbers with block value stacking, made even more rediculous by holy damage ignoring armor. It seems very likely that if straight block value IS available, it will be in very limited and controlled quantities.

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Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:58 pm

Yeah, it's just a nice incentive to learn it now ;)

I think it's still too early to say that block value will be rare. There is a LOT of redundant gear out there, especially if heroics will all be dropping relevant loot. If block value actually goes down as boss damage skyrockets it would become a garbage stat for anything but paladin threat... Sad panda.
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Postby Splug » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:05 pm

PsiVen wrote:Yeah, it's just a nice incentive to learn it now ;)
"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

I guess in our case, "Don't do it for free if you're bad at it either."
Last edited by Splug on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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