Retribution and Holy Tanking in Wrath

[Kitsuna]

I've done my fair share of ret tanking. It is certainly doable if you plan accordingly.

I can't comment on beta, but I can tell you that a ret paladin with improved righteous fury dishes out loads of threat while tanking on live. And feel free to l2p me or what have you, but I think you can often generate more threat as ret offtanking than prot. At the very least I found Crusader strike doing a lot more for threat than holyshield while being tank number 2.

With the changes in the beta, I don't find it unbelievable that a ret tank could in fact produce near equivalent threat at all levels. As far as mitigation goes, yeah not having the points to play with is going to be felt. But seriously, assuming a proper spec you ain't gonna be that much worse off mitigation wise than an arms or fury warrior tanking. Hp will suffer a bit, but add kings and that crazy level 80 shield spell of ours and it probably isn't TOO bad.

[Macha]

Ret has access to Improved Righteous Fury. Redoubt. Shield spec. Anticipation. Toughness. Even improved Devotion Aura.
What below that is mitigation?
Ardent defender. Judgements of the Just.
The latter can be supplied by any warrior, or even Feral Druids now.
The former is a hard thing to miss out on yeah, but if healers are on the ball it shouldn't be working all that much anyway.
In addition, Art of War is 3% more reduction form all sources on top of that.
Sorry, that simply does not add up to a shitload more damage when you're both wearing the same gear.

Yes it does. Two words: Holy Shield.

Ret will take FAR more hits as opposed to blocks than prot paladins do, which alone will significantly increase the damage they take, especially with the increased value of blocking in the expansion due to the strength synergy. In 10mans and 5mans, a warrior is also not a given, making Judgement of the Just quite an improvement too.

The threat is probably going to be noticeably worse, with Ret lacking HotR, Reckoning, Expertise, onehand mastery, the improvements to most aggro skills(all of which scale well with Str/Ap), and stamina -> Spelldamage.

Ret isn't comparable. That doesn't mean they can't tank things they outgear, or five mans. They'll just do it significantly worse than Prot. Which is a good thing - else ret would have to be nerfed in that regard.

[halabar]

The better question is, will prot be enjoyable leveling to the point where you won't need to spec Ret for the grind to 80? Even for just dealing with caster mobs when out mining?.. If our new talents address that, then Ret to tank leveling is not needed...

[Zonzede]

Yes it does. Two words: Holy Shield.

Ret will take FAR more hits as opposed to blocks than prot paladins do, which alone will significantly increase the damage they take, especially with the increased value of blocking in the expansion due to the strength synergy. In 10mans and 5mans, a warrior is also not a given, making Judgement of the Just quite an improvement too.

The threat is probably going to be noticeably worse, with Ret lacking HotR, Reckoning, Expertise, onehand mastery, the improvements to most aggro skills(all of which scale well with Str/Ap), and stamina -> Spelldamage.

Ret isn't comparable. That doesn't mean they can't tank things they outgear, or five mans. They'll just do it significantly worse than Prot. Which is a good thing - else ret would have to be nerfed in that regard.

I'll submit more damage from not blocking as much with Holy Shield. But as an experiment, Try tanking a 5 or 10 man without activating HS at all, and compare your intake numbers.

The threat abilities you listed almost all have counterparts in ret performing in similar manners. HotR/Divine Storm, 1h master/Crusade, aggro buffs/High crit and Vengeance, Stam>SP/AP>SP.


Ret isn't going to rival Prot for main tanking. Ret isn't going to hold up as powerfully as Prot to intense AoE situations. Ret is not going to be as durable, or bring quite as much threat as prot to their target targeting them.

But, I will say this. Maybe it's just 3am talking, but As things stand right this moment, I will say if you don't MT, if your role is mostly that of OT/trash tank, you will be better off as Ret than Prot.
Your OT threat can be extremely strong if you macro in a 2h to storm, and shield to slam with and hold when you do take the stage. Doing this, I have no doubt tat you'll beat a prot in threat.
Then, when he OT phase is done, or you're in a fight which doesn't require that second tank, you have a perfectly capable DPS spec.
I'll even say because of Gear Scaling mechanics, Ret will be superior in 5s, and low 10s. The case for it is strong enough to warrant actual testing and investigation.