HOLY in WOLK?

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HOLY in WOLK?

Postby bockhorn » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:18 am

First of all I'd just like to apologize if this is a bit off topic!

So far we've focused mainly on protection (obviously) but also retribution - kudos to the very informative beta testers by the way! But what about holy?


But, while I certainly understand people aren't too tempted to try out holy, what are your first impressions about it? (beta testers and what not). I'm just curious because it really doesn't look like much have changed and our holy tree still look like the most dull of all the healing trees out there. Not that this bothers me much since my healing days are way behind me and I guess same is true for most of you around here but regardless, have blizzard really outdated our holy tree while focusing on improving our other two?

Also note that when I call holy "dull" then I mean boring, excruciatingly boring and I really cant stop myself from laughing a bit at all the healing slaves that will continue their monotoneous trade in WOLK as well, heh.

What are your thoughts?
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Postby Teloc » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:21 am

Yeah, were all prot yummy. But we have looked at holy a bit. They seems to becoming more active.

Holy shock is getting its healing increased, lowered to a 6 second cooldown, and with talents making holy light instant cast if it crits. Plus holy gets 30 yard Judgments granting them 10% haste for 30 seconds when they judge. So I'd say holy is becoming more active and enjoyable.
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Postby kaynine » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:24 am

Certainly many healers don't enjoy it, but quite a few of my guildmates and rl friends genuinely enjoy healing. I think I'll be giving every tree a try, but like most of you here, my heart's set in tanking.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:25 am

Holy got some very nice buffs in wotlk, and finally some partecipation in what you do rather than just spamming FoL/HL in the back of the raid.

If i wasn't our main tank and only tankadin, i'd seriously consider going Holy for WotLK, since unlike many, i had rolled this character to be holy.
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Postby Dawnseeker » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:27 am

Well it seems with holy shock becoming a lot more viable and judgment (from 30 yd range) being rather appealing, holy will certainly be more interactive than the FoL spam it is currently.
That and the fact that they finally have the AoE heal/HoT they've been after for eons, and sacred shield (and news on how/if this scales with spell power btw?) and being a holydin may actually be... dare I say it... fun. :shock:
(Also with the changes to crit rating, haste rating and spell power, shockadins have the potential to throw out quite a bit of hurt.)
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Postby Andryana » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:27 am

I agree with teloc, holy seems more interesting than it is now, keeping a judgement up for the haste bonus and having instant HL with holy shock crits makes things more interesting!

And they also got the beacon of light.. which i'm guessing it's good for raid damage?
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Postby Arjuna » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:29 am

don't forget about our friend the happy little: Sacred Shield

with all that holy spellpower it will be rather nice to have around...
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Postby Zeels » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:34 am

Worldie wrote:Holy got some very nice buffs in wotlk, and finally some partecipation in what you do rather than just spamming FoL/HL in the back of the raid.

If i wasn't our main tank and only tankadin, i'd seriously consider going Holy for WotLK, since unlike many, i had rolled this character to be holy.


Same for me... healed all the way up to 70 before I switched. Could seriously give healing a chance in WOTLK. Problem is I really like to be in control when doing 5-men dungeons, and you really don't have much control as a healer.
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Postby bockhorn » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:41 am

Have to admit that I had completely missed the Sacred Shield skill.

first of all the spell haste talent is just a healing buff, nothing new and it only supports the constant healing spamm.

Beacon of light looks like lightwell deluxe.

Holy shock is most welcome though, I've always believed it was potential in this spell, nice to see some well-needed buffs honestly.

That being said, I dont think holy introduces anything new to the healing front except for Sacred Shield. I might be pessimistic, I don't find holy very attractive except for holy shock as of now.. But each one to his own I suppose!
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Postby sherck » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:17 am

bockhorn wrote: That being said, I dont think holy introduces anything new to the healing front except for Sacred Shield. I might be pessimistic, I don't find holy very attractive except for holy shock as of now.. But each one to his own I suppose!



A few thoughts from a Pally planning on going Holy in WoTLK who is NOT in the Alpha or Beta and has no experience with WoTLK except for reading boards.

1. At the start of the pull, Seal something and then use Judgement of Light from 30 yards away (Enlightened Judgement) to get some passive healing going while at the same time gaining a 10% spell cast haste (Judgements of the Pure).

2. Force a critical Holy Shock as your first heal with Divine Favor. This sets up an instant cast Holy Light (Infusion of Light).

3. Keep spaming FoL as required until you need the big heal.

4. Every 15 seconds, cast Beacon of Light on the tank in an AoE encounter to keep some passive AoE healing going.

5. On each new mob, Judge Light to keep the passive healing going as well as your spell haste (from 30 yards away, I might add).

6. Pop wings if greater through-put is needed (+ 30% healing) or Divine Illumination if mana conservation is needed (- 50% mana use). Or pop both for a heck of a good time (Avenging Wrath first with it's 20 sec duration with Divine Illumination only lasting 15 seconds).

7. When you need the big guns, cast your INSTANT Holy Light (Infusion of Light)

8. Keep casting 1.8 second Holy Light as required (from Judgements of the Pure and Light's Grace). Faster Holy Light spells if you any haste gear.

10. When at 1/2 mana, top off the tank, get in a Beacon of Light, bubble with Divine Shield, have 30% of all party damage redirected to your bubble with Divine Guardian and cast Divine Plea to get back to full mana in 6.0 seconds and cast heal spells as required for the other 4.5 seconds before your bubble wears off.

11. If desperate, you can cast Lay on Hands every 16 minutes (shortened Cool-Down with Improved Lay on Hands) to keep someone alive.

12. Laugh at the dead mobs on the floor and head off to the next pull.

Obviously, this is pulling out all the cool downs but it is an attractive scenario for a Holy Paladin who currently only really has FoL, HL, Divine Favor and Divine Illumination in our bag.

Each healing class heals different. Paladin struggle in AoE scenarios and yawn with boredom in a single-boss tank and spank.

I like the spell haste so that I can cast 1.35 second FoL on party members to top them off in AoE situations. I like 1.8 second HL. I like having an AoE, HoT even if it is short ranged THAT I DON"T GET AGGRO FROM. I like having a Holy Shock that I can use every 6 seconds.

Lots of new toys for the Holy healing Paladin IMO. I cannot speak to the PvP aspect because, well, I suck at PvP and can be beat by Alliance toons 250 levels below me. Truely, my brains just run right out of my head when I get attacked by some Alliance scum and I default to "oh, crud, I am running or I am dead..."

Sigh...

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Postby shifttusk » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:36 am

I too am giving holy a huge look for WOTLK, the buffs look awesome but not only that the high crit sheath build looks absolutely OP for tank healing as well as pvp.

30YD judgement + Hot proc + Longer range holy shock is going to work very awesome in pvp while still being a crazy main tank healer. These will give us more mobility and the ability to use our offensive burst without exposing ourselves to opponents as much. Think shockadin but with the ability to heal your partner with more mobility.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:01 am

sherck wrote:8. Keep casting 1.8 second Holy Light as required (from Judgements of the Pure and Light's Grace). Faster Holy Light spells if you any haste gear.

Holy crap. 1.8 secs, esp when you factor in additional haste, is already very close to the 1.5sec GCD -- why do we even have FoL, then? (Does spell haste now shorten GCDs too? I thought I read that, but as a hunter it Didn't Apply.) Damn, 1.8sec holy lights is some serious mana expenditure.

I like having a Holy Shock that I can use every 6 seconds.

Agreed. Having 2x the HS opportunities means that shockadin is a little more viable (even with judgement on GCD), and also means that you get your crit HS->HL combo far more often.

Especially since you can get nearly 20% +crit for holy spells by going holy/ret, Iwould be surprised if holy paladins didn't START raiding with around 30% crit or more, and ramp up closer to 40.
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Re: HOLY in WOLK?

Postby Nymeros » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:47 am

bockhorn wrote:Also note that when I call holy "dull" then I mean boring, excruciatingly boring and I really cant stop myself from laughing a bit at all the healing slaves that will continue their monotoneous trade in WOLK as well, heh.


Yeah, that's my thoughts on Paladin healing. It's improved (especially in WotLK), but it's way too KISS and auto-pilot for my tastes.

When I used to play a Druid, Resto was a lot of fun though. They had tons of abilities to chose to select the best for each situation, multiple "oh crap" buttons, 5+ hots of your own going on targets at the same time to watch for, and are able to heal on the move from one place to another. I may have liked Balance and Feral more, but I still loved Resto.

I'd imagine I'd enjoy Priest healing as well.
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Re: HOLY in WOLK?

Postby snowwight » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:14 pm

The trouble with holy at the moment (IMO):

1. Holy Shock is still the least efficient spell, though it is definitely less inefficient than before. It would have been interesting if they had made it the MOST efficient, because then mana-minded paladins would have had to use a rotation rather than FoL spam.

2. BoL only becomes more efficient than FoL spam when you hit like 4-5 targets- and no one heals them for 15 seconds... As you get more crit, FoL gets more and more efficient, and BoL stays the same. It's basically never worth using in 5 mans, unless the small amount of healing it does will keep someone alive until you can heal them for real(and they don't step out of the area of effect).

3. In fact, the real problem with Holy is that FoL is so efficient, it drags down the whole class. If they dropped it down quite a bit, they could rebalance our mana regen model.

On the other hand, if you can keep a tank up with Holy Shock alone, you could spend your time meleeing with SoW/JoW, since it doesn't interfere with your swing timer. With the buff to these two abilities, that means Holy Shock kind of IS the most efficient spell, when you outgear the content enough to just use holy shock.
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