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Let's have a Viking Funeral for Judgement not being on GCD

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Postby Mehnalas » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:44 am

Dawnseeker wrote:I'm not really fussed by the change, especially since they're increasing seal duration.
Technically for me, my judgment has been on GCD for a while since I tend to use my macro to immediately recast SoR (started using it for Maiden, kinda got used to it) so with seals no longer being consumed, I don't see it making a difference.
This and such. Its pretty much a buff across the board although I'm kinda gonna miss the uniqueness of the original seal system.
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Postby Dorvan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:56 am

The resaon Judgment was on the GCD in the first place was that you had to reseal every time you judged. Now that that's no longer the case, there's no reason for the accommodation to remain. I think the 2 min seal thing may be a direct response to the seal weaving ideas being tossed around. It was a cool idea, but I think getting the benefit of two seals at once was not something Blizzard intended, and this seems a decent solution to that problem....making is unviable except perhaps in the highest of incoming DPS scenarios.
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Postby shifttusk » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:13 pm

Arthaal wrote:My thoughts exactly... everyone on MMO-champion still has a hard on for shockadin burst... but without judgement/HS macros, that spec becomes unplayable. The sustained DPS is a joke and little CC means you can't control a healer long enough to get any target down. Double macro shots were the only thing that made playing without a rogue or warrior possible with the overall low DPS. That's it game over shockadins.


I highly doubt this will be the end of shockadin playstyle in arena. I mean really straight holy is terrible so relying on some offense is good. Plus all gear will be "spellpower" gear in the expansion so the itemization will actualy be better for them. Judgements critting 2x like mele will help offset the 1.5s gap in the burst. Not to mention the fact that shockadins will probably grab the 30 yd range judge as well.
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Postby iliya » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:29 pm

shifttusk wrote:I highly doubt this will be the end of shockadin playstyle in arena. I mean really straight holy is terrible so relying on some offense is good. Plus all gear will be "spellpower" gear in the expansion so the itemization will actualy be better for them. Judgements critting 2x like mele will help offset the 1.5s gap in the burst. Not to mention the fact that shockadins will probably grab the 30 yd range judge as well.


That's not the part I'm worried about.

When you spec for shock, you can usually rely on the fact that when you have a set up macro (using trinkets, wings, Divine favor), your next macro attack will reliably be able to use both holy shock and the judgment at practically the same time, resulting in big, bombastic burst that gives me e-erections.

Though, if I understand my macros right, we'll have to back to relying on the /stopcasting command in the macro so we don't screw it up, if one were to try it again in the next expansion. However, the end result will still be the same: No more instant bursts of Holy Shock and JoR.
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Postby Bereid » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:30 pm

wait so seals last two minutes even if you judge them or do i have to reseal after judging like always o.O
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:37 pm

Bereid wrote:wait so seals last two minutes even if you judge them or do i have to reseal after judging like always o.O
Seals last 2 minutes. Judging doesn't eat your seal.
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Postby Bereid » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:43 pm

well that is indeed awesome =D
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:42 pm

Judge+reseal macros are fail :/ I will miss you, GCD-free judgements!
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Postby Nymeros » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:58 pm

Well, think of the good news.

Look at how many macro spaces we just gained from this!
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Postby Jaedyn » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:45 pm

The big problem with this is from a PVP standpoint. It's now cheaper to Mass Dispell the Paladin than it is for him to reseal.

There's something innately messed up about that.

From a longtime old school Shockadin this really makes me pretty sad (old school being Mayish of Y1). It's definitely never been an amazing build, but it's definitely had it's own little viable niche in PVP, and was a refreshing step away from cookie cutter bullshit so many other classes have had to sucumb to in Arena's. On the other hand, itemization is going to kick ass for Holy Paladins now for Holy DPS/Heal hybrid specs. With my current Shock gear I will basically hit 1200 spell damage/2280 healing with the expac. Oh and that's sporting about 32-33% crit.

Drop talent points down to gain SD from AP and run around with Imp BoM for even more Spell damage goodness. It's less ZOMGBOOM viable but frankly I don't think it will destroy the class. I think Ret Aura + Imp BoM in full Lamellar gear (will we even have Lamellar at 80?) will still be fairly rowdy. We're still going to have a shield on so with our new spells we have enough "annoyance" damage to use our GCD's in between the Judgment/Shock downtime.

Factor in the lower shock cool down, and the higher HoW range/crit rate and damage zone and I think shock may come out ahead still even with this change.
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Postby d503 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:35 pm

Jaedyn wrote:The big problem with this is from a PVP standpoint. It's now cheaper to Mass Dispell the Paladin than it is for him to reseal.

There's something innately messed up about that.

From a longtime old school Shockadin this really makes me pretty sad (old school being Mayish of Y1). It's definitely never been an amazing build, but it's definitely had it's own little viable niche in PVP, and was a refreshing step away from cookie cutter bullshit so many other classes have had to sucumb to in Arena's. On the other hand, itemization is going to kick ass for Holy Paladins now for Holy DPS/Heal hybrid specs. With my current Shock gear I will basically hit 1200 spell damage/2280 healing with the expac. Oh and that's sporting about 32-33% crit.

Drop talent points down to gain SD from AP and run around with Imp BoM for even more Spell damage goodness. It's less ZOMGBOOM viable but frankly I don't think it will destroy the class. I think Ret Aura + Imp BoM in full Lamellar gear (will we even have Lamellar at 80?) will still be fairly rowdy. We're still going to have a shield on so with our new spells we have enough "annoyance" damage to use our GCD's in between the Judgment/Shock downtime.

Factor in the lower shock cool down, and the higher HoW range/crit rate and damage zone and I think shock may come out ahead still even with this change.


RE: Dispelling Seals...
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397
Last edited by d503 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:37 pm

d503 wrote:
Jaedyn wrote:The big problem with this is from a PVP standpoint. It's now cheaper to Mass Dispell the Paladin than it is for him to reseal.

There's something innately messed up about that.

From a longtime old school Shockadin this really makes me pretty sad (old school being Mayish of Y1). It's definitely never been an amazing build, but it's definitely had it's own little viable niche in PVP, and was a refreshing step away from cookie cutter bullshit so many other classes have had to sucumb to in Arena's. On the other hand, itemization is going to kick ass for Holy Paladins now for Holy DPS/Heal hybrid specs. With my current Shock gear I will basically hit 1200 spell damage/2280 healing with the expac. Oh and that's sporting about 32-33% crit.

Drop talent points down to gain SD from AP and run around with Imp BoM for even more Spell damage goodness. It's less ZOMGBOOM viable but frankly I don't think it will destroy the class. I think Ret Aura + Imp BoM in full Lamellar gear (will we even have Lamellar at 80?) will still be fairly rowdy. We're still going to have a shield on so with our new spells we have enough "annoyance" damage to use our GCD's in between the Judgment/Shock downtime.

Factor in the lower shock cool down, and the higher HoW range/crit rate and damage zone and I think shock may come out ahead still even with this change.


RE: Dispelling Seals...
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=35397


please note that the person you are quoting is obviously and repeatedly talking about a "shockadin" build, and shockadin builds cannot get that talent.
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Postby d503 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:39 pm

Sabindeus wrote:please note that the person you are quoting is obviously and repeatedly talking about a "shockadin" build, and shockadin builds cannot get that talent.


Fair enough. Modded down to one link :P
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Postby Flex » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:58 pm

Sabindeus wrote:please note that the person you are quoting is obviously and repeatedly talking about a "shockadin" build, and shockadin builds cannot get that talent.


going for only Holy Shock allows Paladins to pick up that talent.
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Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:03 pm

Flex wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:please note that the person you are quoting is obviously and repeatedly talking about a "shockadin" build, and shockadin builds cannot get that talent.


going for only Holy Shock allows Paladins to pick up that talent.


It doesn't really matter, the mana cost and the fact that judgement is on a GCD and therefore can be made completely unavailable by a priest or a shaman is too much of a counter in my opinion.

I get what blizzard is trying to do, and it's a good idea, but I think that consequence is too steep with this implementation. You shouldn't have to pick up that talent to keep yourself from being permenantly and easily locked out from your core combat system by two classes.
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