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Protection + Sheath of Light

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Protection + Sheath of Light

Postby Nilaus » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:40 am

This is my first post here but I have been lurking for quite a while. I've been wondering why no one has ever mentioned including Sheath of Light in a Protection spec so far. The second I saw that talent I knew that I had to include it in all future builds.

Our abilities seem to scale with both SP and AP so getting a good mix of both seems to be the best option instead of focusing on one or the other.

If we are sharing loot with warriors then high threat gear can be highly strength based with this build. This is not really a 25man MT build since you are a bit short on point in Protection. But the point of it is for leveling to 80 entirely with Protection spec and tanking heroics and WotLK equivalent of Karazhan.

Example spec: http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 0155310020

Advantages:
- 30% spell power from Strength which is going to be a huge amount of spell damage
- HotC, Imp Retri aura, +2% damage
- Very strong JoW/JoL (probably even stronger than Ret due to +30% spell damage from Stamina)
- Focus on strength gives high block and great shield bash

Disadvantages:
- No HotR (I still get one more button to press with shield bash, so I don't mind)
- Not quite enough point to get everything needed (1h spec)
- what else?

Variations:
- Divine Strength instead of Toughness for leveling/threat
- 2/3 Shield of the Templar instead of Judgement of the Just 2/2

What do you guys think?

/Nilaus

Edit: I was thinking of sticking with a spell power weapon for this build, since melee damage irrelevant without HotR
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:03 am

Don't think we need that much TPS right now.

I have 650 Spellpower with my Tanking Sword (about 100 more then on live), with my SD Weapon I have 300+ more.

30% of Sta -> SD is a Tanking Talent. This is way then enough. But I'm only 71 3/4 right now :roll:
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Postby Karock » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:10 am

It seems like the extra spellpower won't make up for what we're losing in terms of threat generation except on AoE of a massive scale, and well I personally don't care how well I AoE stratholme. =P

We'll just have to wait and see though it may turn out to be a great AoE threat spec that tons of content is tailored around.
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Re: Protection + Sheath of Light

Postby Macha » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:36 am

Nilaus wrote:This is my first post here but I have been lurking for quite a while. I've been wondering why no one has ever mentioned including Sheath of Light in a Protection spec so far.


It was mentioned before, the idea isn't new.
Nor is it a really good idea, either, because it is short sighted in my opinion.

What you are really doing is cutting off the new stat synergies. This means that the gear you gain does less for you than for other tanks. You sacrifice HotR, you become more mana dependant because you have to rely on consecration more, you sacrifice scaling for shieldbash not once, but twice, and you sacrifice general threat increases like onehand mastery.

What you gain is some aoe aggro at most, and a tiny bit of mana on Judgement. What you lose is
-Mitigation
-Single target threat
-Stat synergy
-Devoaura-utility
-possibly even Judgement of the Just
-cheap threat

Is the little bit of AOE threat really worth that? I'd say no. It's better to balance the gear between SP and AP (which means going for HotR and our Sta -> SD talent), than to focus on SP over ap(by sacrificing HotR and str scaling)
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Postby Kagi » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:39 am

In terms of large scale aoe tanking (think hyjal) I think I would prefer something like this. With 2 extra points to spare. But it really would depend on hos much attack power prot sets would have at 80, might be a waste of points.
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Postby Arjuna » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:04 am

Kagi wrote:In terms of large scale aoe tanking (think hyjal) I think I would prefer something like this. With 2 extra points to spare. But it really would depend on hos much attack power prot sets would have at 80, might be a waste of points.


think it would be enough to switch a few items out for spelldamage items and go for a normal tanking spec...

what use is it to tank 12 elites if you die in the process?
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
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Postby Nilaus » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:31 am

Arjuna wrote:think it would be enough to switch a few items out for spelldamage items and go for a normal tanking spec...

what use is it to tank 12 elites if you die in the process?


I don't see why you would die any faster than a regular full Protection spec... There are no missing survival talents unselected (you can easily switch 2 points from Reckoning to Sacred Duty if you prefer).

Macha wrote:What you lose is
-Mitigation

No survival talents unselected.
Macha wrote:-Single target threat

HotR, ShoR, Judge, Exorcism, Consecrate, Holy Wrath. I think there are enough options to fill all GCD and maintain high single-target threat without HotR.

Besides Ret aura is +50% increased and +8% crit from ret talents (both spell and melee) + 2% from the old Sanctity aura talent. That should more than cover the +5% damage from 1H spec.
Macha wrote:-Stat synergy

Heavy protection benefit:
Sta -> SP
Strength -> Threat/Blocking

This spec benefits:
Sta -> SP
Strength -> Threat/Blocking
AP -> SP

I don't see how that is less synergy? Besides without HotR there is no need to use a slow rogue 1H and I can opt for spell damage 1hander for even more threat. Regular melee is still only 100% threat while Holy is 190%
Macha wrote:-Devoaura-utility

I don't care about that. I want Ret aura when tanking
Macha wrote:-possibly even Judgement of the Just

I have included that as well.
Macha wrote:-cheap threat

HotR doesn't have a mana cost listed so is it free? If so then it is going to be a hard call to give it up.

Anyways, my point is not to come up with the be-all-end-all paladin spec. I would like to float the idea and here if anyone tried it in Beta yet.

As I previously stated my focus is not cutting edge raiding, but leveling to 80 and enjoying the 5mans there

EDIT: I am at least giving it a shot to see what I like best.
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:38 am

Hammer costs about 500 Mana at 71.
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Postby Karock » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:38 am

I really doubt that this spec will excel more than a more normal prot paladin spec at 5 mans due to having better single target threat (as well as most probably better ~3 mob threat) with a more normal prot paladin spec.
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Postby Arjuna » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:52 am

It's a nice aoe build...but I'm going for bosstanking, and I want my holy hammer every 6 secs...


Consecration is another thing...with all the other skills I'm gonna use I don't want to include a mana-sponge like this in my rotation. :P

HotR is 6% of base mana...and I'd rather use that than 1475 mana every 8 secs(1843 damage each second from a boss just to deal with this skill, not counting the others needed to keep aggro off the dps)!

Taking +5% crit in the retri tree is another thing...why not improve your retri aura and take crusade to make consecration have more threat aswell and not only ShoR and JoR...
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
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Postby Nilaus » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:12 am

Arjuna wrote:Taking +5% crit in the retri tree is another thing...why not improve your retri aura and take crusade to make consecration have more threat aswell and not only ShoR and JoR...


Oops, I actually intended to do that, but I forgot it when I had to create the build to link to this thread.
3% (crusade) + 2% (Sanc Retri) ~= 5% from 1H spec

I am a bit afraid of the mana usage on Consecrate. To me paladin tanking is epitomized by Consecrate and Holy Shield, so that is why I want to build a spec around it. If I wanted Swipe then I would play my feral druid :D
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:22 am

Nilaus wrote:
Arjuna wrote:Taking +5% crit in the retri tree is another thing...why not improve your retri aura and take crusade to make consecration have more threat aswell and not only ShoR and JoR...


Oops, I actually intended to do that, but I forgot it when I had to create the build to link to this thread.
3% (crusade) + 2% (Sanc Retri) ~= 5% from 1H spec

I am a bit afraid of the mana usage on Consecrate. To me paladin tanking is epitomized by Consecrate and Holy Shield, so that is why I want to build a spec around it. If I wanted Swipe then I would play my feral druid :D


3% Crit + 2% Damage is not the same as 5% Damage.

Consecrate or Ret Aura or Holy Shield or Sanctuary or Seal can all NOT Crit.

Well, I'm sure there are going to be Paladins goint the Ret/Aggro way. Like right now the 0/40/21 Players. But lets just wait how all the scaling is going.

--------------

For your Spec: 30% AP is SD. Why don't you skill +15% Str?

For the Rest, really wait for:

1) Itemisation (T7)
2) Encounters (Naxxramas is no Hyjal for one)
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Postby Lemondish » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:25 am

Nilaus wrote:
Arjuna wrote:Taking +5% crit in the retri tree is another thing...why not improve your retri aura and take crusade to make consecration have more threat aswell and not only ShoR and JoR...


Oops, I actually intended to do that, but I forgot it when I had to create the build to link to this thread.
3% (crusade) + 2% (Sanc Retri) ~= 5% from 1H spec

I am a bit afraid of the mana usage on Consecrate. To me paladin tanking is epitomized by Consecrate and Holy Shield, so that is why I want to build a spec around it. If I wanted Swipe then I would play my feral druid :D


See right NOW Paladin tanking is all about facerolling Consecrations and Holy Shield. In Wrath, with new abilities and a new focus on threat stats you won't necessarily be expected to spam those two spells now. You'll have abilities that posses a more specialized focus on threat and thus creating situations where Consecration will be useful, but not required to maintain threat on multiple targets. As such we'll most likely see it in a secondary role, i.e. for quick pick ups and threat boosts when necessary.
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:35 am

Also for this Spec:

We have a Retribution Paladin in our Raid. HE will be the one with Ret-Aura on. As his brings +2% Damage and +3% Haste. So I'll get improved Devotion Aura (+3% Healing, +50% Devotion Aura).

Now, you'll say, that is Holy Paladin. But no more, they go Ret to get +5% Crit. So they can not take this talent.

With Ret Paladin (and I really say, if you don't have one, get one), just go 0/59/12 or 5/56/10 or so. Without Ret and in dire need of more TPS? Got get'em.
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