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Some gear thoughts: Now that we can't be crushed....

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Postby halabar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:13 am

PVP gear is generally good all around for PVE EXCEPT for tanking. Otherwise, it's a great way to gear up.

Now, this is likely to change, with the new requirements for gear. The "AFK to honor" bias here is not an issue now, since you have to do arena and WIN to actually buy gear now. Honor alone does nothing.
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Postby Angella » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:40 am

halabar wrote:PVP gear is generally good all around for PVE EXCEPT for tanking. Otherwise, it's a great way to gear up.

Now, this is likely to change, with the new requirements for gear. The "AFK to honor" bias here is not an issue now, since you have to do arena and WIN to actually buy gear now. Honor alone does nothing.


You can always buy 2 seasons old honor gear and up-to-date items for the other non-arena gear slots. You'll be 80-90% the way geared out and you will have had to have zero skill.
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Postby halabar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:56 am

Angella wrote:
halabar wrote:PVP gear is generally good all around for PVE EXCEPT for tanking. Otherwise, it's a great way to gear up.

Now, this is likely to change, with the new requirements for gear. The "AFK to honor" bias here is not an issue now, since you have to do arena and WIN to actually buy gear now. Honor alone does nothing.


You can always buy 2 seasons old honor gear and up-to-date items for the other non-arena gear slots. You'll be 80-90% the way geared out and you will have had to have zero skill.


You can right now. I expect that as it goes along, the rating reqs will stay, or perhaps have slight reduction, so you STILL have to do arenas for the old gear. Times are gonna change.
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Postby balrogg » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:06 am

Karock wrote:I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.


pvp gear: you win, you get epics. you lose, you get epics.

pve gear: you win, you MIGHT get epics, + badge epics at a relatively slow rate (maybe 1 piece per week assuming you dont play 20 hours a day). you lose, you get repair bills.

you know what, you CAN get an alt geared up _IF_ you have people willing to take you through kara/heroics, and assuming you arent the main tank. and its possible to get 5+ epics assuming you have no competition and you are blessed with luck. but you can also do a kara where you get absolutely nothing but badges pending drops, and considering competitive pve gear will cost 75+ badges for the most part, you arent guaranteed by any means to get anything. essentially, not everyone has 9 people to drag them through kara, not everyone has the best luck with drops, and assuming those 2 are true, very few people can go from an alt in greens to full epics in 2 weeks. not to say it doesnt happen, its just not likely for the average player. whereas ANYONE can spend the same time farming bgs, and reliably pick up x pieces of pvp gear, with almost no effort at all if they so choose. that is why people consider pvp gearing "easier" than pve. tanks have it worse since the ones who need the gear most are the ones who will have the hardest time getting the upgrades.
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Postby Constantine » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:07 am

Honorshammer wrote:I can't quote the source, but one version of the patch notes had :

Resilience no longer works in PVE Instances.


This.

And nothing else.
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Postby dmok » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:25 am

balrogg wrote:very few people can go from an alt in greens to full epics in 2 weeks. not to say it doesnt happen, its just not likely for the average player.

Of course, if you plan ahead it's not too hard to be in full blues a day after hitting 70. I know thats what my pally did. and full blues is competitive enough to at least start heroics and be able to OT kara well for a badge-farm run
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Postby Arees » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:30 am

dmok wrote:
balrogg wrote:very few people can go from an alt in greens to full epics in 2 weeks. not to say it doesnt happen, its just not likely for the average player.

Of course, if you plan ahead it's not too hard to be in full blues a day after hitting 70. I know thats what my pally did. and full blues is competitive enough to at least start heroics and be able to OT kara well for a badge-farm run


One of the rogues in our guild has a hunter alt. His hunter dinged 70 the day we do kara, and he wanted to bring the hunter. Nearly very single boss dropped a hunter piece and I'm wanting to say that he got 9 epics, plus had enough badges to get another later. I wish I had that kind of luck :x
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Postby Marklevin » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:32 am

PVP gear is okay for a few pieces that are hard to find (i.e. shoulders or maybe bracers) and then there's some pieces that are pure excellence if you're only in Kara as a Pally tank (Gavel)
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Postby roosevelt » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:41 am

Assuming you have great luck with drops in kara you still had to L2P or find 9 geared people to carry you. I think finding groups for heroics is harder than the heroics, especially during non-peak hours, where as you can farm BGs all night. People AFK their way to full pvp sets, how hard can it be?

PVP gear is serviceable for some classes in PVE but a full PVP set means you're not anywhere near hit capped for most classes. You can make up for this with gem, enchant, food, but for serious PVE the gear sucks. I've done enough heroics with PVP healers to know that their regen usually sucks. Its a way to fill in a slot or two but for most classes PVP gear underpreforms. Just be glad that tanks don't have it as an option.
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Postby Tev » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:11 pm

Gonna be lazy here and not quote, so bear with me :p

PvP gear at lower ranks can compensate pretty well (minus tanking) for the tier gear equivalent in pve.... mainly S1 vs T1 gear. Once you get into S2 vs T5 you start losing out big time on the stats that help longevity (int, mana/5, spirit) needed for boss fights.

PvP gear is definitely easier to get than tier or badge gear, but only because of how easy it is to farm BG pugs if you have a solid group. I like the idea of personal ratings in BGs, but it would be hard to balance so that defenders don't get screwed over.

My thought about PvP tank gear wasn't a tank set you can get through pvp, but a set for tanks to use in pvp, something that would allow tanks to fill a more dynamic role in pvp outside of flag runner, AV tank, or node camper. Ideally something that would enhance deep prot tree talents to grant us greater mobility, team support, and maybe even a way to taunt players/redirect attacks to ourselves.
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Postby Ahms » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:17 pm

Angella wrote:
Karock wrote:I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.

As far as pvp gear being good for pve, it's not now and I doubt it will be then.

The reason a "few" pieces of it aren't bad for starter feral druid tanks is because they don't need as much crit reduction to reach uncrittable, gain more from "extra armor" than we do and don't gain parry or block chance from defense rating, making it much much less valuable to them.

For us, we currently would lose too many avoidance stats using pvp gear and it will likely be the same in wotlk.


This made me laugh. You can afk for the honor to get welfare epics. You must pay attention and play the damn game to get PvE gear or you wipe and get nada.

Its not just about time, but the quality of that time. There's a huge difference.


not really. if everyone afk'd there's no telling what the amount of time it would take to even get one piece of gear let alone a whole set. and it's a game- the only thing that matters to most people is fitting in the time

i took my warrior, who hit 70 a few weeks ago, on one of our kara runs and she made out like a bandit in about 2 hours. when instance runs become what is pretty much mindless farming, it's incredibly easy to gear someone up quick, as long as their luck is good. she still needs weapons though and there's no way in hell i'm doing the honor grind for them. it's great and fun when you're on a win streak but a giant pain in the ass when you keep joining crappy teams

when you're breaking through a raid for the first time, yeah, it's going to take some time. but when you start to easy mode it you start to gear up people like hell. but the time for pvp gear remains the same pretty much, and the frustration level can be quite constant
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Postby Arjuna » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:38 pm

Ahms wrote:*snip* i took my warrior, who hit 70 a few weeks ago, on one of our kara runs and she made out like a bandit in about 2 hours. when instance runs become what is pretty much mindless farming, it's incredibly easy to gear someone up quick, as long as their luck is good. she still needs weapons though and there's no way in hell i'm doing the honor grind for them. it's great and fun when you're on a win streak but a giant pain in the ass when you keep joining crappy teams *snap*


...made out with who? ;)
Looks like your kara runs are more fun than mine... :P


(or is it just my understanding of the English language that is...lacking? hehe)
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Postby Dorvan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:45 pm

"to make out like a bandit" is roughly "to be greatly rewarded, more than expected/deserved"....it's an English idiom.

"to make out" as used in the idiom has nothing to with heavy kissing and means approximately "to earn money as though"....although I'm not aware of it really being used this way aside from that one idiom.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:55 pm

Disregard that, Ahms was clearly cybering rogues in general chat for lewts. ;)
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Postby Arjuna » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:08 pm

Dorvan wrote:"to make out like a bandit" is roughly "to be greatly rewarded, more than expected/deserved"....it's an English idiom.

"to make out" as used in the idiom has nothing to with heavy kissing and means approximately "to earn money as though"....although I'm not aware of it really being used this way aside from that one idiom.


aww, too bad, I was hoping to inspire my female healers (many of them are, hehe)for some karazhan action...
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