Remove Advertisements

Some gear thoughts: Now that we can't be crushed....

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Some gear thoughts: Now that we can't be crushed....

Postby Tev » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:28 am

Does that mean the pvp gear would be viable for tanking (similar to how the druid pvp set does for them now)?

Its too early to say what the pvp gear will look like stat wise or how it will be obtained (arena, bg, etc.) However if it continues to follow the current trend of high stam, good armor, more than enough resilience to become uncritable, do you think it will be a good alternative for gearing to help close any gaps that may arise at 80?

Obviously as it stands now, outside of tank choices, the pvp gear does well in pve, however the pve gear will do a better job in pve. There really isn't any tank gear for pvp (unless your a druid, the feral set works really well). On the opposite however pve gear doesn't do as well in pvp due to the lack of resilience.

Just mainly curious what people think and why it would be a good/bad idea to add a prot set acquirable in pvp and usable in pve. So I guess the questions are;

1 - Do you think they may even add (or should add) a pvp set that is more ideal for prot pallies? (both in and outside of pvp) Why?
2 - Should pvp gear be more cross compatible with pve gear? (pvp gear would still be better in pvp and vice versa but you could make up for lacking slots) Again why?
3 - Should anything be changed about the way they do pvp/pve gear now?


My answers;

1) I doubt they will (if they do it'll likely be ret gear thats usable by us), but I think they should. The reason is that I would like to see more representation of prot oriented classes in PvP. We should be the 'turtle breakers' that can charge into a mess of enemies and disorient things, as well as great resource protectors.

2) Yes and No. There should be enough of a distinction between them that they can fill their role better, pvp gear for pvp, pve gear for pve. Set bonuses should reflect that aspect. At the same time there should be some shared associations that allow you to swap one for the other if you don't have access to both, in what I mean is similar effect on individual pieces (Like boots would share a movement oriented effect, gloves help prevent disarming/silence, etc.)

3) I personally don't like the arena system, and think they should go back to a more BG oriented system. Make accomplishing goals in the BG the primary source of honor and less "zerg the game for max honor/hr."
For example, in AV you would start with X honor potential (like 500) you lose a tower, you lose 100 honor, you let galv/bal die, you lose 150 honor, you take a tower, you only gain 50, and killing galv/bal nets you only 75. Ivus/Lok are auto-summoned after specific events, you lose 2 towers first, they are in your base on defence, you take 2 towers first, they get summoned mid field and start to advance. They get the same buff Drek/Vann gets based on how many towers are still up, and increase the buff to health/damage from 25% per to 33% per.
Follow similar concepts for the other BGs, fast games that award based on objectives and not zerging.
After all, its Warcraft, not Arenacraft or Zergcraft.
Tev
 
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Some gear thoughts: Now that we can't be crushed....

Postby roosevelt » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:52 am

Tev wrote:
1 - Do you think they may even add (or should add) a pvp set that is more ideal for prot pallies? (both in and outside of pvp) Why?
2 - Should pvp gear be more cross compatible with pve gear? (pvp gear would still be better in pvp and vice versa but you could make up for lacking slots) Again why?
3 - Should anything be changed about the way they do pvp/pve gear now?


1. No. PVP gear is for PVP. If you've ever partied with a pvp-tard you know how wrong this would be. My hope is that they make a serviceable reputation PVE set (like the blue PVP set) or craftables to help go from fresh 80 to tanking anything people will actually want to run one month after release.

2. No. PVE gear is MUCH harder to get. Even badge gear is a lot more time and coordination and effort. If I had my way PVP gear wouldn't work in PVE instances. If anything they should add in some solo-casual content for solid PVE starter gear so BGs aren't just AFK alts getting welfare.

3. I would like to see BG personal ratings. Everyone would hate it because of PuGs but they could make the rating mechanic factor in how well you personally play (in addition to win/loss). The idea being to cockblock the AFKers and premade losing token farmers. They would have to balance it for node defenders that don't see much action.
roosevelt
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:31 pm

Postby Karock » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:06 am

I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.

As far as pvp gear being good for pve, it's not now and I doubt it will be then.

The reason a "few" pieces of it aren't bad for starter feral druid tanks is because they don't need as much crit reduction to reach uncrittable, gain more from "extra armor" than we do and don't gain parry or block chance from defense rating, making it much much less valuable to them.

For us, we currently would lose too many avoidance stats using pvp gear and it will likely be the same in wotlk.
Karock
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 10:57 pm

Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:03 am

Karock wrote:I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.


A week or two?

Lemme see. Assume 2-3 heroics a night, 6 nights a week: generous average of about 10-12 badges/night: 120-144 badges after 12 days.
2x Karazhans on the offnights: 44 badges, maybe 5-6 useable epics after two karas if exceptionally lucky.

That's 188 badges and some kara epics after two weeks. That's assuming someone in starting lvl 70 gear could tank heroics at a fast enough rate to do that many heroics in an evening. In the meantime, it's enough time for someone to do some serious grinding in BGs with the starting PVP set and get themselves some nice toys on the T5 level.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:07 am

But no, I'm not interested in being a PVP-geared tank. I happen to like having some avoidance.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:08 am

With the new Itemisation?

- SD/Heal Set (is one I suppose): No
- Ret Set: No

So: No chance tanking with S5.
Sarkan-ZdC
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:00 am

Postby Gideon » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:35 am

Badge gear also only covers a few slots. You can be the worst player in the game and still lose your way to a full pvp set. You also cannot compare the time and gold costs of learning a new raid dungeon to the BG grind. I also don't see arena players having to pay for 1-2 flasks a night, 1 full stack of buff food, 2 or so oils and whatever else every member of my raid burns per progression night. I have trademules in full or nearly full epics from pvp. My potion master is getting his S4 gloves this reset and we went into the arena naked.

I respect (the pvp skills of) those who met the rating requirements for arena gear but there's a reason why even the devs call them welfare epics.
Gideon
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:12 pm

Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:41 am

PvP gear doesn't have defense, dodge, block, parry or probably even Strength.

Resilience can die in a fire.
Image
I am not allowed to seduce the abyssal's lunar mate.
User avatar
Snake-Aes
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 15538
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Thorns

Postby Origon » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:42 am

Ret stuff right now has str, stam, resilience (for uncrittable), but absolutely no avoidance
User avatar
Origon
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 pm

Postby Karock » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:28 am

Ulushnar wrote:
Karock wrote:I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.


A week or two?

Lemme see. Assume 2-3 heroics a night, 6 nights a week: generous average of about 10-12 badges/night: 120-144 badges after 12 days.
2x Karazhans on the offnights: 44 badges, maybe 5-6 useable epics after two karas if exceptionally lucky.

That's 188 badges and some kara epics after two weeks. That's assuming someone in starting lvl 70 gear could tank heroics at a fast enough rate to do that many heroics in an evening. In the meT5antime, it's enough time for someone to do some serious grinding in BGs with the starting PVP set and get themselves some nice toys on the T5 level.


I wasn't referring to tanks since there's, you know, no tank gear available from pvp but a shield and a mace?

As far as karazhan goes you can easily get 6+ epics a night as long as it doesn't hate you/hate your classes spec or more. I've seen people go from greens to almost all slots epic in one kara. Add in a few heroics and the badges from two and you can pretty much fill in your other slots with epic gear.

PvP gear is only on the "T5" level for use in PvP. It is not NEARLY as good as T5 for use in PvE.

And like I said the TIME COMMITMENT either hourly via honor or monthly via arena points (low rating = say hello to 8 weeks for one piece of gear) is much much greater than PvE gear.

Oh and to the guy who was complaining about repair costs, sell 15 badges in the form of a gem or a nexus and realize that you gain tons of money from killing bosses who are on farm in whatever instance you are in. I'm a tank and I easily make money clearing up to whatever boss we're working on even with the repairs from that boss.
Karock
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 10:57 pm

Postby honorshammer » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:31 am

Snake-Aes wrote:PvP gear doesn't have defense, dodge, block, parry or probably even Strength.

Resilience can die in a fire.


I can't quote the source, but one version of the patch notes had :

Resilience no longer works in PVE Instances. That's why the Druid talent for reducing Crits had to 6%. I don't know who the Bears are sharing gear with but my money is on 0 +Defense leather.
User avatar
honorshammer
Moderator
 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Postby Yadard » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:47 am

Honorshammer wrote:Resilience no longer works in PVE Instances. That's why the Druid talent for reducing Crits had to 6%. I don't know who the Bears are sharing gear with but my money is on 0 +Defense leather.


Now that is a long overdue change.
Image

Sworn: We do bad things to bad people.

Yadard - 70 - Moonglade
Yadard
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:17 am

Postby Angella » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:48 am

Karock wrote:I totally disagree that PvP gear is more difficult to get than PvE gear. You can have an alt in full epics from badges, heroics and kara in a week or two with minimal effort where it would take you the majority of that two weeks in hours /played to obtain enough honor to gear yourself out similarly.

As far as pvp gear being good for pve, it's not now and I doubt it will be then.

The reason a "few" pieces of it aren't bad for starter feral druid tanks is because they don't need as much crit reduction to reach uncrittable, gain more from "extra armor" than we do and don't gain parry or block chance from defense rating, making it much much less valuable to them.

For us, we currently would lose too many avoidance stats using pvp gear and it will likely be the same in wotlk.


This made me laugh. You can afk for the honor to get welfare epics. You must pay attention and play the damn game to get PvE gear or you wipe and get nada.

Its not just about time, but the quality of that time. There's a huge difference.
Image
Angella
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:26 pm

Postby ulushnar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:53 am

Karock wrote:
PvP gear is only on the "T5" level for use in PvP. It is not NEARLY as good as T5 for use in PvE.


Bollocks it is. My S2-geared Hunter with a Kara gun was keeping up with our T5 level DPS in SSC/TK before 2.4. It didn't have a lot of AP, but if you were sensible, the crit more than made up for it.

And my Shaman mate who PVPed/Arena'd constantly continually complained there was no upgrades in T5 content for his gear.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Postby PsiVen » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:56 am

Quit arguing about this BS. Gearing alts isn't hard anymore period, it just takes time.

PvP tanking gear... No thanks, I can imagine what sorts of people that would attract.
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Next

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?