Remove Advertisements

Are we going to be slower 5man tanks now?

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Are we going to be slower 5man tanks now?

Postby tbolt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:10 am

Hey, with the stuff I've seen it seems that the warriors got their rage regen and AoE tanking abilities improved while we are going to have more expensive spells and a reduced mana pool (since we'll be sharing gear). Now I know the raiders are going to say they have infinite mana since they get hit harder but I'm just wondering how 5mans are going to be.
As it is I usually have a to drink every few pulls anyways so I don't think any of our changes are going to improve that. On the other hand you've got the druids and the warriors who can keep on going without having to sit down and drink. Also with the warriors' better rage regen and their new ability to do AoE threat, aren't they going to be clearing instances way faster than us in wotlk?
Our mana pools were already small and I'm afraid they're going to get smaller in addition to getting drained at a faster rate. Can anyone shed any light on this?
tbolt
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Postby Equitas » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:15 am

Shockwave has a 20 Second cooldown and only works in a cone like field like Cone of cold for mages, our consecrate and hammer work independently of that.

Also somebody mentioned, i think it might have been worldie or someone tanking utgarde keep that using consecrate doesnt seem that important right now since hammer is the new deal for us.

Rage generation for warriors also isnt that smooth, they have high rage costs and dodging etc only grants 1/2 rage points per dodge, which really isnt that much. Use your abilities wisely and downrank consecrate since it is your biggest manasink and you should be fine, somebody also mentioned rank 4 consecrate should do for a while :)


EDIT:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=11221

heres the thread, read some reviews of the dungeons and how the tanks did them. good insight.
I am filled with Rage.... and cupcakes!!!
Image
Of the Nightfall - Check
Twilight Vanquisher - Check
the Undying - Check
the Immortal - Missing
User avatar
Equitas
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:50 pm

Postby Lemondish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:31 am

Equitas wrote:Shockwave has a 20 Second cooldown and only works in a cone like field like Cone of cold for mages, our consecrate and hammer work independently of that.


Yes but Shockwave is only one of those. Sweeping Strikes is also now trainable. Although it too has a longer than normal cooldown. Thunderclap and Bloodbath both remain capable of at least causing threat on multiple targets to the extent that healing will not pull off the warrior. With the new rage generation from pure avoidance, couldn't cleave become kind of a rage dump for those AoE moments?

Equitas wrote:Also somebody mentioned, i think it might have been worldie or someone tanking utgarde keep that using consecrate doesnt seem that important right now since hammer is the new deal for us.


Thats what I've been hearing too. More focused abilities mean facerolling concies won't necessarily be required for multi target threat. Though I'm sure a well placed one here or there will aid with pick ups and threat gen.

Equitas wrote:Rage generation for warriors also isnt that smooth, they have high rage costs and dodging etc only grants 1/2 rage points per dodge, which really isnt that much. Use your abilities wisely and downrank consecrate since it is your biggest manasink and you should be fine, somebody also mentioned rank 4 consecrate should do for a while :)


Yeh it might only provide 1/2 rage points per dodge, but if tanking more mobs, there's more incoming attacks. Assume 4 attackers (for proper thunder clap and bloodbath usage) and you'll probably see a substantial increase on rage gen with more chances to dodge (and also from the incoming hits/blocks).

The biggest issue I see facing the tankadin moving into wrath is the gear focus change. We'll be in a sort of spelldamage/str threat stat limbo for a bit as we regear while we head to 80.
Lemondish
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 pm

Postby Equitas » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:46 am

theyve learned itemisation wise, I had that concern aswell, but oh well what the hell, ill tank from 70-80 anyways, so picking up multiple gear on the side will definitly make things easier.
I am filled with Rage.... and cupcakes!!!
Image
Of the Nightfall - Check
Twilight Vanquisher - Check
the Undying - Check
the Immortal - Missing
User avatar
Equitas
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:50 pm

Postby Sharlos » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:54 am

The biggest issue I see facing the tankadin moving into wrath is the gear focus change. We'll be in a sort of spelldamage/str threat stat limbo for a bit as we regear while we head to 80.


yeah but apart from a weapon change all our current gear is serviceable for tanking. ure it probabbly isn't optimal, but their 5mans, by the time we hit areas where we need to aim for optimal all our gear will have been replaced.
User avatar
Sharlos
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Lemondish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:06 am

Sharlos wrote:yeah but apart from a weapon change all our current gear is serviceable for tanking. ure it probabbly isn't optimal, but their 5mans, by the time we hit areas where we need to aim for optimal all our gear will have been replaced.


Oh definitely, I'm just wondering how swapping out pieces as we go will work. At some point there's going to be a large amount of the tankadins with half spell damage epics and half new world strength/stam pieces. Will we remain viable still, or is it going to severely crumple us into little balls of broken =/
Lemondish
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 pm

Postby Sharlos » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:22 am

Lemondish wrote:
Sharlos wrote:yeah but apart from a weapon change all our current gear is serviceable for tanking. ure it probabbly isn't optimal, but their 5mans, by the time we hit areas where we need to aim for optimal all our gear will have been replaced.


Oh definitely, I'm just wondering how swapping out pieces as we go will work. At some point there's going to be a large amount of the tankadins with half spell damage epics and half new world strength/stam pieces. Will we remain viable still, or is it going to severely crumple us into little balls of broken =/


I think we will have problems before we get to 75 and get shield of righteousness (which is what makes strength more useful to us). But touched by the Light will be giving us a lot of 'free' spell power so by the time we start replacing our spell damage gear, we'll have the abilities to make the strength gear worthwhile.

Tankadins who wernt 70 during BC however may face problems when they're finding upgrades from the lvl 70 quest rewards.
User avatar
Sharlos
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Worldie » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:49 am

I don't really have many issues even with T6 DPS, as long as they don't mindlessly nuke random targets.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13347
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Equitas » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:01 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't really have many issues even with T6 DPS, as long as they don't mindlessly nuke random targets.


Thanks worldie, now back to you allie.

Allie: ITS GONNA RAIN!
I am filled with Rage.... and cupcakes!!!
Image
Of the Nightfall - Check
Twilight Vanquisher - Check
the Undying - Check
the Immortal - Missing
User avatar
Equitas
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:50 pm

Postby tbolt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:04 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't really have many issues even with T6 DPS, as long as they don't mindlessly nuke random targets.


How's your mana though when tanking for those guys? Do you consecrate at all in your normal rotation or is it no longer really necessary to throw that in?

I was just hoping that in this expansion we wouldn't have to drink as much after pulls without having to start stripping. I think I saw someone say that they were addressing warrior tanks overgearing instances, I wish they would do that for us.
tbolt
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Postby Worldie » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:06 pm

I never consecrated more than twice unless it's a AoE pack. And i only consecrated if i had the proc up.

Overally as long as it's 3-4 targets, HotR + Holy Shield + 1 consecration are enough to keep them from the healer.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13347
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Lemondish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:10 pm

I think the dodge/parry rage thing helps also in multi target tanking scenarios as well as over gearing instances. Since we're essentially the best at multi target threat that same concept wouldn't work well since we don't need help with it.

Given the way that all of our abilities also gain from Attack Power as well as Spell Power I'm starting to think there won't be a big issue when we swap gear as we level. The one thing I'm afraid of IS the mana issues. I have them now on trash (bosses are a different story of course, but a tank that can't tank trash isn't a tank). Retribution paladin mana was taken into consideration with Judgments of the Wise turning the small base mana pool into something that can be refilled pretty quickly based on damage (thereby scaling with gear).

I hope something similar comes into effect, like a mana on block mechanic. It'd create an atmosphere where a certain give and take would take place between the amount of mana returned on a block, the amount expected in most cases, and the cost of the spells in general. It'd definitely create an environment where the scaling could be tuned as we level up to 80. The better the gear, the higher the mana return from blocking and therefore the easier lower level stuff becomes.

Which, if tuned properly, is exactly how it should be.
Lemondish
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 pm

Postby tbolt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:52 pm

Lemondish wrote:I think the dodge/parry rage thing helps also in multi target tanking scenarios as well as over gearing instances. Since we're essentially the best at multi target threat that same concept wouldn't work well since we don't need help with it.

Given the way that all of our abilities also gain from Attack Power as well as Spell Power I'm starting to think there won't be a big issue when we swap gear as we level. The one thing I'm afraid of IS the mana issues. I have them now on trash (bosses are a different story of course, but a tank that can't tank trash isn't a tank). Retribution paladin mana was taken into consideration with Judgments of the Wise turning the small base mana pool into something that can be refilled pretty quickly based on damage (thereby scaling with gear).

I hope something similar comes into effect, like a mana on block mechanic. It'd create an atmosphere where a certain give and take would take place between the amount of mana returned on a block, the amount expected in most cases, and the cost of the spells in general. It'd definitely create an environment where the scaling could be tuned as we level up to 80. The better the gear, the higher the mana return from blocking and therefore the easier lower level stuff becomes.

Which, if tuned properly, is exactly how it should be.


Yah a %mana return on block would be awesome and would go a long way to fix our mana issue, or maybe even it could be a percentage with relation to block value since we're gonna be using that a lot more.
tbolt
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Postby Lemondish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:48 pm

Tbolt wrote:Yah a %mana return on block would be awesome and would go a long way to fix our mana issue, or maybe even it could be a percentage with relation to block value since we're gonna be using that a lot more.


Exactly my point. As long as it becomes something that scales so that the stronger our character gets with better gear, the more mana we are returned. As such, it would fix our mana issues in low end content, stuff we SHOULD be fully capable of doing, but currently are not due to mana issues.

Everybody seems to count tanking without pants as a suitable alternative to a properly designed solution, but until they put sun tan beeches in WoW, my female tankadin ain't barin' no skin.
Lemondish
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 pm

Postby Arjuna » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:28 am

Lemondish wrote:but until they put sun tan beeches in WoW, my female tankadin ain't barin' no skin.


Aaah, remember lvl 50-ish, when I was tanking in my plate bikini!

Some of the early plate stuff was a bit...chilly...
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
User avatar
Arjuna
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 am

Next

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest