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DPS/Tank weapons does she like it fast or slow...

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DPS/Tank weapons does she like it fast or slow...

Postby Akushi » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:41 pm

From what the random posts i've seen in the past from ally pallies, Seal o' Vengie is best served with a Slow weapon making them hate reckoning more and more

And with our new "you're a holy warrior skills go shield slam some stuffz" and GOD-Devistate (without sunder and hitting everything it wants to) it makes it look like our GCD rotation is going to be as full if not more then a warriors is now, making me feel like i'm gonna be clicking non stop till me or the boss dies

anyway to my point, with this all said and done i'd like someone playing with beta to respond, is a Slow DPS 1h better for a Seal of Corruption/HotR rotation or would a macro to switch between DPS/Tank 1h be a good choice, or would that effectively KILL the GCD rotation adding in gear change GCD's for 2 weapon swaps.
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Re: DPS/Tank weapons does she like it fast or slow...

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:49 pm

Akushi wrote:From what the random posts i've seen in the past from ally pallies, Seal o' Vengie is best served with a Slow weapon making them hate reckoning more and more

And with our new "you're a holy warrior skills go shield slam some stuffz" and GOD-Devistate (without sunder and hitting everything it wants to) it makes it look like our GCD rotation is going to be as full if not more then a warriors is now, making me feel like i'm gonna be clicking non stop till me or the boss dies

anyway to my point, with this all said and done i'd like someone playing with beta to respond, is a Slow DPS 1h better for a Seal of Corruption/HotR rotation or would a macro to switch between DPS/Tank 1h be a good choice, or would that effectively KILL the GCD rotation adding in gear change GCD's for 2 weapon swaps.


Right now, SoV procs on each swing, and I don't think weapon speed matters in the damage component. So a faster weapon will build a stack faster, and you get the damage from the full stack proc more often. HotR though favors a slower weapon right now.
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Postby Griffonheart » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:35 pm

Which presents an interesting concept. Under current mechanism I tank with both SoV and SoR, have 5 stacks while SoR/JoV accordingly. The new SoV no doubt still favors caster weapon more since they are generally quicker weapons. While it's still possible to keep the stack on mob as you tank, slower weapons would refresh stack slower, not counting miss/avoid.

And the debate of which seal to use for tanking is still unclear. SoB would benefit a lot from the new mech but there are more talents for SoR/SoV (+15% and stam -> spell).
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:50 pm

Griffonheart wrote:Which presents an interesting concept. Under current mechanism I tank with both SoV and SoR, have 5 stacks while SoR/JoV accordingly. The new SoV no doubt still favors caster weapon more since they are generally quicker weapons. While it's still possible to keep the stack on mob as you tank, slower weapons would refresh stack slower, not counting miss/avoid.

And the debate of which seal to use for tanking is still unclear. SoB would benefit a lot from the new mech but there are more talents for SoR/SoV (+15% and stam -> spell).


SoR and SoV also are affected by attack power now. Consecrate seems to be the only thing affected by just spell damage. Since SoV is procing on each hit, maintaining a stack with any weapon should be pretty easy.
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Postby Griffonheart » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:20 am

Fridmarr wrote:SoR and SoV also are affected by attack power now. Consecrate seems to be the only thing affected by just spell damage. Since SoV is procing on each hit, maintaining a stack with any weapon should be pretty easy.


Understood, but quicker weapon still stacks SoV quicker and while both SoR and SoV are affected by AP, so are SP, and SP weapons are usually fast.

The choices here seems to be you go with quicker weapon and keep SoV stack quickly but comes with sucky HoR, or you go slow and probably won't have time to stack SoV pronto with much stronger HoR.

Or both, if you want to switch weapon. After the five stack SoV will be easy to keep, but I am not sure if I want to bother with all the cooldowns we got lately.
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:33 am

Heroic Strike, meet Devastate.
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Postby Zalaria » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:49 am

Griffonheart wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:SoR and SoV also are affected by attack power now. Consecrate seems to be the only thing affected by just spell damage. Since SoV is procing on each hit, maintaining a stack with any weapon should be pretty easy.


Understood, but quicker weapon still stacks SoV quicker and while both SoR and SoV are affected by AP, so are SP, and SP weapons are usually fast.

The choices here seems to be you go with quicker weapon and keep SoV stack quickly but comes with sucky HoR, or you go slow and probably won't have time to stack SoV pronto with much stronger HoR.

Or both, if you want to switch weapon. After the five stack SoV will be easy to keep, but I am not sure if I want to bother with all the cooldowns we got lately.


I think you're too worried about getting the 5-stack. Remember we have 2 new high-threat abilities (holy shield slam and hammer of hit ME!) we can do right at the start of a fight, so getting 5 stacks for the uberjudge isn't all that important. Considering most slow main-hand weapons are 2.6 or 2.7 speed, we'd have a 5-stack for the second (or at worst, third) judge while still burning every GCD along the way on other threat abilities.
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:18 am

I think it's pretty safe to say that we aren't going to be lacking anything in threat generation for a while.
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Postby Griffonheart » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:22 pm

Can HoR proc SoV?
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Postby Worldie » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:29 pm

HoR doesn't proc any seal.
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Postby Lemondish » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:44 pm

Griffonheart wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:SoR and SoV also are affected by attack power now. Consecrate seems to be the only thing affected by just spell damage. Since SoV is procing on each hit, maintaining a stack with any weapon should be pretty easy.


Understood, but quicker weapon still stacks SoV quicker and while both SoR and SoV are affected by AP, so are SP, and SP weapons are usually fast.

The choices here seems to be you go with quicker weapon and keep SoV stack quickly but comes with sucky HoR, or you go slow and probably won't have time to stack SoV pronto with much stronger HoR.

Or both, if you want to switch weapon. After the five stack SoV will be easy to keep, but I am not sure if I want to bother with all the cooldowns we got lately.


Almost all the tanking items are also fast weapons, and they don't sacrifice Hammer of the Righteous to do it. There are also a significant number of DPS one handers with fast speeds to choose from.

Almost all of our seals we'd use in a tanking scenario (besides perhaps SoB) scales with coefficients from Attack Power AND Spell Power. A dps weapon with dps stats on it would, in effect, aid us more in the long run. Although you may lose threat on seals and judgments by saying goodbye to the spell damage weapon, you'll be completely forsaking Hammer of the Righteous, and to a smaller extent Shield of Righteousness (should you choose a one hander with str).

Having a dps weapon in the end spreads the benefit over all of our abilities, and not just a select few.
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Postby PsiVen » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:16 pm

I think it will be pretty clear-cut, slow weapon with tank/dps stats + SoR for general tanking, fast spell weapon + SoV for AoE.
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Postby Karock » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:17 pm

I'm a little confused on why you think SoV currently using slow weapons makes it desirable to use slow ones in WotLK =P

For one currently a slow weapon makes the PPM % per swing much higher thus, over a long period of time it's uptime is more reliable.

In WotLK it procs off of every hit. The questions you should then be asking are, can it still be resisted? does it still have a 5 stack "extra damage" component? does that extra component change with weapon speed?

All of those would have to be answered before you could say anything definite about SoV in WotLK.

As far as HotR goes it greatly favors slow weapons as opposed to fast weapons like all current instant attacks due to a higher damage range being used for the instant strike.

Reckoning is supposedly actually more use with a 2+ swing timer than under 2 seconds due to the buff running out before it's duration would be up with a faster weapon, at least according to some people's math I've seen ;o I can't say for sure either way but it seems to make sense to me.

As far as the GCD management issue is concerned, we're probably going to be prioritizing abilities more so than we currently do so that we won't always be using everything as soon as it's up. I still have the question of which, if any, of our GCDs are subject to spell haste reduction and which are not.
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Postby Nich » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:15 am

Karock wrote:I still have the question of which, if any, of our GCDs are subject to spell haste reduction and which are not.

I was under the impression that haste will decrease the GCD for all of our things - but not the individual spell cooldowns.

Why would some GCDs not benefit from haste?
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Postby Karock » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:15 am

Nich wrote:
Karock wrote:I still have the question of which, if any, of our GCDs are subject to spell haste reduction and which are not.

I was under the impression that haste will decrease the GCD for all of our things - but not the individual spell cooldowns.

Why would some GCDs not benefit from haste?


I was under the impression that haste didn't lower the GCD of melee abilities but maybe I'm wrong?

Also I'm specifically referring to Wrath of Air and Windfury Totem.
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