Judgments of the Just / thunderclap not needed?

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Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:35 am

Assuming they all use the same judgment (ie wisdom)

the one who judged last has their judgment up after the judging

BUT

on the next melee swing it will revert to ownership by the meleeing paladin, alternating between ThunderJudge and Crit Judge.

(this is how it works on live, WOTLK might have changed it.)

I found this out on Brutalus doing DPS. We had another ret paladin that day, and we noticed (on many many wipes) that whoever was judging wisdom got much less mana back from JoW than the one judging Crusader.

If we BOTH judged Crusader, and had a holy paladin judge wisdom then we both got the same amount of mana, which was the higher one from before.

While fighting you would see the judgement become "yours" every melee swing, then revert to the other paladin's ownership with their swing.
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Postby Argali » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:57 am

As good as it it, I'm trying so hard to shave points here and there to make the prot tree less bloated. QQ
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Postby Maethoriel » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:03 am

Honorshammer wrote:What I'm wondering is how they will deal with multiple Paladins judging, one with Judgement of the Just, one with new 3% crit. With even Holy judging will the debuff be overwritten if another Paladin judges the mob.

Something like this:

3 Paladins: Healz, Tankz, Painz

Healz has neither ThunderJudge nor CritJudge
Tankz has ThunderJudge
Painz has CritJudge

Tankz judges, then 1 sec later Painz judges, then Healz judges. What debuff(s) are on the mob?

If three paladins judge, than it would be stupid if they all judge the same.
Therefore: ThunderJudge and CritJudge will be on the boss, attached to different debuffs (wisdom, light).
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:14 am

I found this out on Brutalus doing DPS. We had another ret paladin that day, and we noticed (on many many wipes) that whoever was judging wisdom got much less mana back from JoW than the one judging Crusader.

If we BOTH judged Crusader, and had a holy paladin judge wisdom then we both got the same amount of mana, which was the higher one from before.


I must be missing something. How exactly is live JoW different from a holy pally?
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Postby Vanifae » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:15 am

You can have multiple versions of the same judgment up on the mob; i.e. I judge Wisdom and a Ret Paladin Judges Wisdom you will see two Judgment of Wisdom debuffs on the mob.

I still have not verified if Judgment of the Just is working or not.
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Postby Maethoriel » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:28 am

Vanifae wrote:You can have multiple versions of the same judgment up on the mob; i.e. I judge Wisdom and a Ret Paladin Judges Wisdom you will see two Judgment of Wisdom debuffs on the mob.

I still have not verified if Judgment of the Just is working or not.

But I assume you will not see it procc twice.
If it does not procc twice, I see no reason why one would judge 2x wisdom instead of 1x wisdom 1x light.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:53 am

Vanifae wrote:It isn't working on Beta, or at least not showing up on Mobs I judge.


It is working, duel someone and judge them with something and have them check their character sheet. They should see a slower attack speed.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:00 am

Honorshammer wrote:What I'm wondering is how they will deal with multiple Paladins judging, one with Judgement of the Just, one with new 3% crit. With even Holy judging will the debuff be overwritten if another Paladin judges the mob.

Something like this:

3 Paladins: Healz, Tankz, Painz

Healz has neither ThunderJudge nor CritJudge
Tankz has ThunderJudge
Painz has CritJudge

Tankz judges, then 1 sec later Painz judges, then Healz judges. What debuff(s) are on the mob?


When Mortehl and I were testing yesterday both of our JoW's showed up. The thing is, the amount of mana you get from JoW is dependent on the person attacking not the person who judged it. Neither of us were getting double procs, so I'm assuming that both effects were still in place, his retribution +crit effect and my TC type effect, but you only got mana from one. So neither effect was overwritten.

We also verified that Mortehl could refresh my Judgement with crusader strike and the attack speed change stayed in place. That said, you wouldn't want multiple pallys judging the same thing. If you have more than 3 that are going to be judging, I'd have the extras judging justice.
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Postby Whimsy » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:58 am

The damage reduction in slowing effects like TC and JoJ is nice, but that's not the best part.

By slowing an opponent's attack you give the healers more breathing room between hits.

Don't think of it as slowing the boss' attack. Think of it as effectively increasing the speed of incoming heals.

And since all tanking classes now have an attack speed reduction mechanic built in, I suspect that we will see a lot more fast-hitting bosses.
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Postby Braundo » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:05 am

Whimsy wrote:And since all tanking classes now have an attack speed reduction mechanic built in, I suspect that we will see a lot more fast-hitting bosses.

Which is win/win for us, really.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:07 am

Whimsy wrote:The damage reduction in slowing effects like TC and JoJ is nice, but that's not the best part.

By slowing an opponent's attack you give the healers more breathing room between hits.

Don't think of it as slowing the boss' attack. Think of it as effectively increasing the speed of incoming heals.

And since all tanking classes now have an attack speed reduction mechanic built in, I suspect that we will see a lot more fast-hitting bosses.


Well it significantly reduces the amount of damage you take overall, because during a specified interval, the boss will get less swings. On some fights, that's very important.
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Postby honorshammer » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:44 pm

My concern was I didn't want our ThunderJudge falling off because a Holy or Ret judged the Boss.
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Postby Forlorn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:04 pm

You will want to work out before hand who is using which judgement. For instance have the Healer using Judgement of Light, the Ret using Judgement of Justice and you use Judgement of Wisdom. Boom problem solved. Remember there are 3 different judgments spells that are unrelated to the seals. For instance you might have Seal of Righteousness up but you still have to choose either JoW, JoL or JoJ as you judgement to use.
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Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:55 pm

PsiVen wrote:
I found this out on Brutalus doing DPS. We had another ret paladin that day, and we noticed (on many many wipes) that whoever was judging wisdom got much less mana back from JoW than the one judging Crusader.

If we BOTH judged Crusader, and had a holy paladin judge wisdom then we both got the same amount of mana, which was the higher one from before.


I must be missing something. How exactly is live JoW different from a holy pally?


The JoW isn't different, its that you only get extra mana from JoW if you have judged JotC(imp) and are refreshing it with your melee swings.

If paladins A and B judge Crusader, and C judges Wisdom, A and B Both alternate ownership of the Crusader debuff, and both get the bonus mana!

Anyway, thats on live, does the same affect still happen on WotlK? you need 3 paladins to test really, and a combat log parser.
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Postby Aleriya » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:22 pm

If you have more than 3 that are going to be judging, I'd have the extras judging justice.

Won't most paladins want to use Judgement of Wisdom for the additional mana back?
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