Seals of the Pure vs SoCom (slow weapons)

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Seals of the Pure vs SoCom (slow weapons)

Postby Othniel » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:42 pm

I don't have the beta to try it, or the resources to figure out whether lvl 80 mechanics allow this...

But I'm keen to know whether this would be a viable strategy. If "boss tank" paladins start gearing for str/stam/crit for the threat and block value, and we add this to the "slow weapon" niche of HotR, is socom, with its crits, going to provide better long-term threat? (yes I know it'll be more bursty)

This is an interesting thought to me, because it's not a gearing strategy that I'd think would scale as effectively on large numbers of mobs (although obviously still great for 3-5 targets). It would place the paladin in a slightly more warrior niche.

Would we then get a strategy/build divide between "boss" tanks and "trash" tanks, where a spellpower/avoidance based tank will AoE pull pretty much every trash mob, and let the "main tank" tank the boss with superior mitigation vs harder hits?

Maybe I'm making the SoCom crit benefit out to be worth more than it is, but moving the 5pts from seals of the pure to the ret tree might give enough bonuses for this to work.
Image
Othniel
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:02 pm
Location: AU

Postby Lore » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:09 pm

Use Seal of Blood/Martyr if you want to use a melee-style seal for threat. The self damage is negligible and you don't have to spec for it :P

But yeah it'll be interesting to see what is better. Remember though that SoR scales with Spellpower and Attack Power now.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:55 am

What I want to know if Ret paladins will use SoB in WOTLK.

With the sheath of light they will have a lot of spellpower, and SoComm scales with Spelldamage and AP while SoB only scales with AP.

It would be rather funny for alliance to finally get SoB, and then have it be useless imho :)

(might be usefull for tanking, but probably not due to the not scaling with Spelldamge)
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Morganim » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:22 am

Candiru wrote:What I want to know if Ret paladins will use SoB in WOTLK.

With the sheath of light they will have a lot of spellpower, and SoComm scales with Spelldamage and AP while SoB only scales with AP.

It would be rather funny for alliance to finally get SoB, and then have it be useless imho :)

(might be usefull for tanking, but probably not due to the not scaling with Spelldamge)


With all the haste being thrown around atm
20% from new wf totem, unless they change the way seal of command procs blood/martyr will be much better for pve
PvP wise lets hope they dont nerf 20k judgements :D
Morganim
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:55 pm

Postby jahve » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:35 am

Candiru wrote:What I want to know if Ret paladins will use SoB in WOTLK.


Well currently SoC is critting for amazing anything between 4 k and 23 k so there will be "a fix". After that it is easier to evaluate difference and decide wtich one they will use.
jahve
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:43 am

Lore wrote:Use Seal of Blood/Martyr if you want to use a melee-style seal for threat. The self damage is negligible and you don't have to spec for it :P

At the moment SoR/V/C is still more threat than SoB/M, but that's maybe cause i'm still decked without any real +STR/Ap items...
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Griffonheart » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:43 am

I used to tank with SoC back in pre-BC days, thanks to the lack of +spells gears. Apparently the trend might return but Lore is right, SoB/M is much more reliable.

Using SoR, the damage/threat over time is the same. Slower weapon proc SoV/Corruption much easier. Slower weapon, as I wanted to calculate before, probably work better with Reckoning also.
True Voyage is Return

Image
Griffonheart
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:51 pm

Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:48 am

SoV/C doesn't have a proc chance anymore, it's 100% proc, so the weapon speed is ininfluent.

Actually a faster one is better due to the small holy damage you get when hitting a 5 stacked mob.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Arjuna » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:54 am

but isnt a faster weapon worse when it comes to HotR?
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
User avatar
Arjuna
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 am

Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:56 am

It's like the endless Devastate vs Heroic Strike debate...
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13568
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:13 am

Also weapons faster than 2.0 are worse for reckoning, although if you include parry haste on yourself you want 2.6 or more maybe.

But then judgments are better with a fast weapon!

I think a 1.5s weapon to stack 5 vengeance on the pull, then change to a 2.6 for Hammer of the Righteous?
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Arjuna » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:19 am

you'll get gcd when switching weapons if i don't remember wrongly
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
User avatar
Arjuna
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 am

Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:19 am

The only thing that matters for hammer of the righteous in this case is 100% of weapon damage. You don't want to go into the same terrible place that warriors spend all their time arguing.

WEAPON DAMAGE

Hammer the current target and up to 2 additional nearby targets, causing 100% of weapon damage as Holy damage. This ability causes high threat.



The Unbreakable Will
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=30874
**********112 - 209 Damage**********

vs

Hammer of Judgement
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=34009
**********19 - 129 Damage**********

vs

Merciless Gladiator's Slicer
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=32052
**********203 - 305 Damage**********


All the other statistics are MEANINGLESS. Weapon damage is the one that matters.

I will get data to back up my point, but as of right now based on the paper doll and some gut feels, I believe that bursting your first large combo with a fury 1 hander, then switching to a standard "warrior" tanking weapon is the way to go.
Arthas, we're coming for you. (Eventually)
Mortehl
Moderator
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Naxx 10 prepping for Naxx 25

Postby Griffonheart » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:22 am

I posted a spec at the Spec thread, a spell focused spec that doesn't required slow weapon:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

And it favors +spell caster weapons. The spec above is likely more suitable for SoR/SoV, but if people want to use HoR, slower weapon is better. Note that HoR is cheap enough that, unless cooldown interferes, I think people would use it even with a quicker caster weapon.

EDIT: Our gears in WotLK will have strength regardless of our MH weapon, which is why if we go deeper into Ret tree, the net +spell you gain from Sheath of Light is quite good. Combine with Touched by the Light and a caster MH, it will add up a lot of spell damage for our current tanking style.

Example of 500 strength would be 1k AP, which is 300 +spell, as well the extra damage from other Ret talents.

Arjuna: Nice Dalek you got =D We are superior to them in only one respect ^_^
True Voyage is Return

Image
Griffonheart
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:51 pm

Postby Arjuna » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:16 am

Griffonheart wrote:I posted a spec at the Spec thread, a spell focused spec that doesn't required slow weapon:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

And it favors +spell caster weapons. The spec above is likely more suitable for SoR/SoV, but if people want to use HoR, slower weapon is better. Note that HoR is cheap enough that, unless cooldown interferes, I think people would use it even with a quicker caster weapon.

EDIT: Our gears in WotLK will have strength regardless of our MH weapon, which is why if we go deeper into Ret tree, the net +spell you gain from Sheath of Light is quite good. Combine with Touched by the Light and a caster MH, it will add up a lot of spell damage for our current tanking style.

Example of 500 strength would be 1k AP, which is 300 +spell, as well the extra damage from other Ret talents.

Arjuna: Nice Dalek you got =D We are superior to them in only one respect ^_^


We are better at dying ;)
HUZZAH! How many points do I receive? :D
User avatar
Arjuna
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:26 am

Next

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest