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I just tanked Utgarde Keep :)

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Postby d503 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:22 am

Lots of awesome questions! Sorry, I went to bed shortly after posting ><

Here are some answers:

Could you share the talent spec you used?


http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZx0tIh0zggoeRho

Kind of a weird spec. I mostly picked it for leveling at this point, hence some of the "tanky" bits missing...since respecs are only a copper, I wasn't too concerned about it being shitty or not. I'll probably refine this as I go on b/c of the uselessness of the Int talent, though it woulda been nice to have more mana...

Why you drop judgement from rotation if they dont consume seals anymore or was that what you meant with judgements being abit broken atm?


Go read anywhere, especially on the Paladin forums, Judgements are doing RIDICULOUS amounts of damage. And part of that, is because they're applying two damage spells to the mob when you use Judgements like Righteousness, Corruption, Command, and Blood. If you look at the combat log, you'll typically see:

Code: Select all
Judgement of Wisdom hits %t for 870 Holy.
Judgement of Righteousness hits %t for 750 Holy.


So I wanted to see how tanking without judgements would be, since I think they're going to be nerfed/fixed/whatevah. I still used them on boss fights to keep the threat up, but most other stuff died so quickly that there was no point. We're all in T6ish or equivalent (pvp) gear, so level 70, non-heroic instance mobs just evaporate.

Also, I had a Holy Paladin with me, tossing Wisdom on target from 40yds away :)

Were you oom due to not taking much damage or because the skills just use a huge amount of mana?


Alot of it was not taking enough damage, but I was too busy trying to see if my buddies were pulling threat off me to start sitting to take more dmg. My Dodge is probably about 27% in the gear I was wearing at the time, and my Parry like 18%ish, so I was seeing alot of avoidance, hence the OOMness. Some spells are very affordable, tho...e.g.
- HotR - 177 Mana
- Judgement of Wisdom - 147 Mana

Seals were 400+, Consecrate is Consecrate :(, Holy Shield is quasi-expensive. (Sorry, no exact #s)

No Shield slam in the rotation eh?


LOLonlyLVL70 :P Can't wait for it tho!

Stop using consecrate except for more than 3 mobs?


Utgarde is full of pulls with 4+ mobs. So I was usually tossing down an initial Cons to keep that 4th guy (who typically didn't get hit by HotR) off of the healer, and the whirlwinding, Titan-gripping, sweeping striking Warrior :P.

Using JoW + Judging would be a good idea if you got oom Rolling Eyes


I did try this, on bosses to, when I was OOM. Losing 400 a shot (Righteousness proc) turned out to be a huge threat loss, and I was having to taunt mobs back. Ultimately, it was "safer" to pop a pot.

In my Understanding using JoW + SoW and judging for some threat would have been better.


From a pure dmg standpoint, if I judged the Seal of Wisdom, I'd typically get an 850ish point Judgement. If I judged Righteousness, I'd get around 1500, with the chance to crit 3k. The benefits are glaring for Righteousness atm, though I think this will be fixed.

did you test divine guardian, the talent that redirects 30% of the damage to the paladin, does it damage the paladin in the bubble or is he immun and nullifies 30% of the damage to the raid?


Nope...wasn't really any damage flying around to other targets, not to mention that I was tanking the stuff, so bubbling would've been...well...you know :) I may test this ability this weekend, but my gut is telling me you stay immune, and the point of this talent is for the Protadin to have some Raid benefits, even when not tanking (preventing damage is just as good as healing it).

And in my understanding, using JoW while you have SoW active will not cause any damage.


850ish a shot...though we're not sure if that's intended >.>

Conclusions

I probably was overgeared from an avoidance standpoint to really test the viability of mana regen in this instance. There's just not enough damage coming in...it would be like if I jumped in normal SL or Arc right now in my current tanking gear. As we progress more in levels, I'll be getting the blacksmith crafted Cobalt armor and be able to relate my experiences of raw STR/STA/Def armor, to see if it wildly effects our threat capabilities.

Keep the questions coming!
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Postby Rothes » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:41 am

d503 wrote:Conclusions

I probably was overgeared from an avoidance standpoint to really test the viability of mana regen in this instance. There's just not enough damage coming in...it would be like if I jumped in normal SL or Arc right now in my current tanking gear. As we progress more in levels, I'll be getting the blacksmith crafted Cobalt armor and be able to relate my experiences of raw STR/STA/Def armor, to see if it wildly effects our threat capabilities.

Keep the questions coming!


But having trouble tanking because you are over geared is something they are aiming to fix (I thought - prot warriors get rage on dodge and parry).
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:44 am

Rothes wrote:But having trouble tanking because you are over geared is something they are aiming to fix (I thought - prot warriors get rage on dodge and parry).


Possibly, but they haven't done anything to fix ours yet, so we can't expect it to magically work that way for us. All they did for us was increase mana costs more than normal and give us talents to reduce the cost. We haven't gotten any talents/abilities to address over-gearing yet.
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Postby AutomaticZen » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:46 am

Indeed. Like I said, it's kinda easy to assume that's going to happen, because it already happens in TBC. We need the same mechanic that warriors got for being rage starved. You add the mechanic, and then you tweak it and SA in tandem to keep us going in 5Mans without having infinite mana in raids. (Althought, we already pretty much have infinite mana in raids, so I don't see why it's a problem.)
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Postby d503 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:57 am

Yeah, Guarded by the Light is a pretty piss poor excuse for making us more threat-able in high-avoidance situations...especially since they've removed the avoidance aspect of that talent and made it a flat 30% off mana cost (not live on the beta servers yet).

All in all, I'm willing to try some different tanking strats, if you guys want. I'll try different specs, different gear types (working on getting that Cobalt Bsmithing stuff soon), different ability rotations...whatever you want, sugarpies :P
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Postby Arjuna » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:36 am

I still wanna know if HotR refreshes and/or procs judgements on all 3 targets... :)

would be nice...
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:36 am

Arjuna wrote:I still wanna know if HotR refreshes and/or procs judgements on all 3 targets... :)

would be nice...
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Postby Hearthy » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:38 am

d503 wrote:All in all, I'm willing to try some different tanking strats, if you guys want. I'll try different specs, different gear types (working on getting that Cobalt Bsmithing stuff soon), different ability rotations...whatever you want, sugarpies :P


Have you had a chance to play with Seal of Corruption yet? How does it compare to Seal of Righteousness? How difficult is it to switch between the two while maintaining the debuff?
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Postby Arjuna » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:49 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Arjuna wrote:I still wanna know if HotR refreshes and/or procs judgements on all 3 targets... :)

would be nice...
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Postby d503 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:51 am

Hearthy wrote:Have you had a chance to play with Seal of Corruption yet? How does it compare to Seal of Righteousness? How difficult is it to switch between the two while maintaining the debuff?


I decided to try SoV on Ingvar, the last boss of Utgarde Keep...it wasn't difficult to "twist", but I will say that it would be expensive to maintain that, and also expensive from a GCD perspective...but mana alone, you're looking at ~1200ish mana burned every 20s (fall off time of SoCor).
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Postby d503 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:56 am

Arjuna wrote:I still wanna know if HotR refreshes and/or procs judgements on all 3 targets... :)

would be nice...


I don't ever remember getting multuple procs of JoW...that being said, iI don't necessarily know that JoW was on each mob in a pack (usually it's just on the focused target). I can try and test this tonight by throwing JoW on two mobs and only spamming HotR (fortunately it's low mana and low dmg so I can probably test this on some low lvl mobs in Borean Tundra).
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Postby Baelor » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:06 am

jere wrote:
Baelor wrote:And in my understanding, using JoW while you have SoW active will not cause any damage.


Are you sure? I read that very differently over at EJ, unless I missed a post somewhere (which is entirely possible)

I'm quite possibly wrong. Disregard my post.
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Postby Petrus » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:08 am

since respecs are only a copper


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Postby AutomaticZen » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:10 am

d503 wrote:
Arjuna wrote:I still wanna know if HotR refreshes and/or procs judgements on all 3 targets... :)

would be nice...


I don't ever remember getting multuple procs of JoW...that being said, iI don't necessarily know that JoW was on each mob in a pack (usually it's just on the focused target). I can try and test this tonight by throwing JoW on two mobs and only spamming HotR (fortunately it's low mana and low dmg so I can probably test this on some low lvl mobs in Borean Tundra).


Wait. We can Judge multiple mobs now? I totally missed that.
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Postby Arees » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:20 am

AutomaticZen wrote:Wait. We can Judge multiple mobs now? I totally missed that.


you can do that now actually... just not at the same time if thats what you're thinking
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