Divine Strength: Any math?

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Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:06 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Jere did some math on this on page 7 of this thread http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... p?p=184726

I wouldn't count out SoR just yet as the primary threat seal.


The thing is, if you have 3 seconds of time every 18 seconds you'll be wanting to keep SoV up regardless, I don't think the distinction of which seal is "primary" matters. Bascially, in any weaving approach, compared to straight SoR you lose:

-- 4.5 seconds every 30 seconds to GCD (1 GCD would be used for SoR refresh regardless)
-- a % of SoR damage equal to the % of time you're running SoV instead of SoR (probably at least 25% depending on rotation).

In return you gain:

-- continuous 5 stack SoV
-- at least 2-3 5 stack SoV hits every 30 seconds (depending on rotation)

It might be possible it could turn out otherwise, but I expect 100% extra SoV uptime outweighs a 25% loss of SoR plus a couple extra GCDs.

Currently, SoV does scale with AP. However, if you run AP without any SP, there's virtually no difference between a single Holy Vengeance, and a full stack of 5.


Currently SoV has base stacking damage in addition to the scaling....do you have any reason to believe it will be otherwise in WotLK?
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Postby Tybalt » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:11 pm

Dorvan wrote:Currently SoV has base stacking damage in addition to the scaling....do you have any reason to believe it will be otherwise in WotLK?


Read my testing thread on the Beta forums to see why I said what I did. If you run SoV with *zero* SP, the difference between 1 debuff and 5 is about 1-3 damage per tick, total.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&sid=2000
Last edited by Tybalt on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 pm

Tybalt wrote:
Dorvan wrote:Currently SoV has base stacking damage in addition to the scaling....do you have any reason to believe it will be otherwise in WotLK?


Read my testing thread on the Beta forums to see why I said what I did.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&sid=2000


That's exactly the kind of info I want people linking here the first time around :P

....but you didn't actually report the number (or scaling) you were getting for 1-stack ticks (boooo)

Try running the test naked. If there is minimal difference between a 1 stack and a 5 stack, that should be reported as a bug.
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Postby Tybalt » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:30 pm

Dorvan wrote:....but you didn't actually report the number (or scaling) you were getting for 1-stack ticks (boooo)

Try running the test naked. If there is minimal difference between a 1 stack and a 5 stack, that should be reported as a bug.


If you read the SoV testing part of my thread, you'd see the numbers there. ;)

FWIW, I just reported it as a bug as well. We'll see if anything comes of it.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:31 pm

Tybalt wrote:If you read the SoV testing part of my thread, you'd see the numbers there. ;)

FWIW, I just reported it as a bug as well. We'll see if anything comes of it.


For some reason I thought I saw the word "almost" in there. Anyway, thanks for the testing....that's exactly the kind of bug we want to catch.
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Postby Tybalt » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:19 pm

I've updated my tests with Avenger's Shield and Holy Shield data.
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Postby Griffonheart » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:32 pm

Tahl wrote:
Conclusion: Based on this (very rough!) estimate with 500 strength, 800 spell power,


800 spell power? If our gears will have more +strength and we will be using a traditional tanking weapon, would we still get 800 strength? More like we are able to maintain our current 500~600 +spell but also got tons more on strength?
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Postby Eaglestrike » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 pm

I'm pretty sure we'll have more than 500 strength. Merely because as a BE I'll probably be over 140 as a base and we can get up to 400 int with mostly just our tier pieces supplying it. I wouldn't be surprised if we can get upwards of 1k strength considering the increase in stats again. As well, Kings and Divine Strength will stack to give us 126.5% strength, meaning Strength will scale with gear/buffs better than Seals of the Pure.

I'm fairly certain I'll skip redoubt/shield spec if all it effects is BV from the shield itself and not from strength, far too many points I can spend elsewhere.
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Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:58 pm

Tybalt, how are you seeing a "sliding scale" with the AP coefficient for SoR?

If you compare buffed to base instead of buffed to buffed, it's pretty linear - comparing Test 1 to Test n yields, to two significant digits, .14 damage per ap. You did have an error between Test 1 and Test 2, the AP difference is 220, not 120.
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Postby Tybalt » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:00 am

Jerey-Darkspear wrote:Tybalt, how are you seeing a "sliding scale" with the AP coefficient for SoR?

If you compare buffed to base instead of buffed to buffed, it's pretty linear - comparing Test 1 to Test n yields, to two significant digits, .14 damage per ap. You did have an error between Test 1 and Test 2, the AP difference is 220, not 120.

Thanks for the catch. My math was indeed off, and fixing it brought the coefficient in line with what I'd expect. I updated the post to reflect it.

Appreciated.
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Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:51 pm

NP.

Also, I'm very eager to see the results from SoB/SotM. With a slow enough weapon and the right talents/gear, I see it as being competitive with SoR. The Decapitator looks like it'd give 83 holy damage on each hit with SotM before adding in spell damage or ap modifiers. Its judgement also has the added benefit of never missing (or so I've heard?).

Additional plus: Steady and low damage to keep mana coming in when we hit an avoidance streak.
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Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:56 pm

Tybalt, ty again for the testing you've done so far. One thing was kinda unclear though. The whole Seal of Vengeance thing. Are the dot ticks scaling with AP in addition to spell damage (you said yes but no results)? To what degree are they scaling. I hear it has a 100% proc rate now. Any idea if the damage from a 5-stack scales with weapon speed and/or damage range?
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Postby Tybalt » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:30 pm

Jerey-Darkspear wrote:Tybalt, ty again for the testing you've done so far. One thing was kinda unclear though. The whole Seal of Vengeance thing. Are the dot ticks scaling with AP in addition to spell damage (you said yes but no results)? To what degree are they scaling. I hear it has a 100% proc rate now. Any idea if the damage from a 5-stack scales with weapon speed and/or damage range?

I've been taking some time off testing to level both Tybalt and my DK a bit, so I don't have any new info for you.

As for SoV, the first debuff scales with both SP and AP, although it seems to scale better with SP. Stacking the DoT does almost nothing (0-4 dmg diff between 1 and 5) if you have 0 SP. I don't know how this affects the Judgment, but the DoT is behaving this way.
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Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:41 pm

Tybalt wrote:
Jerey-Darkspear wrote:Tybalt, ty again for the testing you've done so far. One thing was kinda unclear though. The whole Seal of Vengeance thing. Are the dot ticks scaling with AP in addition to spell damage (you said yes but no results)? To what degree are they scaling. I hear it has a 100% proc rate now. Any idea if the damage from a 5-stack scales with weapon speed and/or damage range?

I've been taking some time off testing to level both Tybalt and my DK a bit, so I don't have any new info for you.

As for SoV, the first debuff scales with both SP and AP, although it seems to scale better with SP. Stacking the DoT does almost nothing (0-4 dmg diff between 1 and 5) if you have 0 SP. I don't know how this affects the Judgment, but the DoT is behaving this way.
Completely understandable. I haven't gotten a Beta invite and you were already doing all these really informative tests, so figured I'd request another.

That sounds like a bug though. Hopefully, enough bug reports will be submitted so that it's looked at. With the 100% proc rate, it sounds like the most promising tanking seal.
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