Divine Strength: Any math?

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Divine Strength: Any math?

Postby Griffonheart » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:39 am

Assuming you have 500 strength (which is pretty high), the talent gives you an extra 50 strength, which = 100 AP = 100 Block value.

100 Block Value with talent = 130.

AP adds to melee attack such as HoR, and block value is mitigation+aggro. I think the talent is useful but is it as essential as other talents when the tree is bloated already? And do remember: We might not even have 500 strength. Would it be better if one focuses on stam instead, because 30% stam = spell? That saves the 5pts.

However, if we do get to 400 strength and above, this talent would be a must have...?

I got a feeling that socketing will be complicated in Wrath.
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Re: Divine Strength: Any math?

Postby Arjuna » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:58 am

Griffonheart wrote:Assuming you have 500 strength (which is pretty high), the talent gives you an extra 50 strength, which = 100 AP = 100 Block value.

100 Block Value with talent = 130.

AP adds to melee attack such as HoR, and block value is mitigation+aggro. I think the talent is useful but is it as essential as other talents when the tree is bloated already? And do remember: We might not even have 500 strength. Would it be better if one focuses on stam instead, because 30% stam = spell? That saves the 5pts.

However, if we do get to 400 strength and above, this talent would be a must have...?

I got a feeling that socketing will be complicated in Wrath.


isnt 2 str = 1 bv?

that would make 500 str 5/5 DS be 25 block value...
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Postby Griffonheart » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:01 am

Hm, you're right, so that's even less of an option now :(
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Postby jere » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:07 am

Isn't divine strength 15% instead of 10%?

That would be 75 extra strength or 150 AP and 37.5 BV
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Postby Chevalier » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:13 am

hmm there's a good chance that'll be worth getting.

As said before we gotta see how much str we have at 80 really.

But for this ex. if we had 500 str at 70 i'd get it, maybe even for the BV alone
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Postby Arjuna » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:17 am

yes, it is 15% extra str

but the way i figured it, +str will replace the bv on items since they probably want all 3 tanking plate classes to share the same gear. So that means many items will probably have +str at 80, to replace the bv on the tanking items. I got around 300-400 bv something in my bv set at 70, and that would mean an equivalent of 600-800 str...wich means +15% is around +90-120 str = 180-240 ap = 45-60 bv...

well, atleast in my fantasy...

/dreams on...
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Postby Teyrocar » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:39 am

Exactly. DeathKnights get Parry from Strength, so they'll rebalance plate tanking gear to be Strength-heavy now that it's actually USEFUL for getting BV.

This means that the only gear DKs won't want is stuff with Block Rating. Not bad.
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Postby AutomaticZen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:45 am

So we have Stamina to Spellpower and Strength to Block Value. What about our mana pool? Armor to Intellect?
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Postby Arjuna » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:55 am

maybe they will change it so that we will have more block and less avoidance at 80, and bring in massive str for the bv so we still can avoid taking tons of damage...that would mean we would have a steady stream of mana inc in raids atleast...

only nuking with hammer and shield thingys (abberations, I HATE YOU :P ) will eat 12% of our base mana every 6 secs...then we'll have judgements aswell at 5% every 8-10 secs...and holy shield for a flat 280 mana every 8-10 secs...

let's just hope our little SA will cope...or that blizzard soes something if it doesnt...
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Postby Manius » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:45 am

I think it's a solid guess that Blizzard want Paladins to gear towards mitigation through armor and blocking, rather than avoidance, with what dodge and parry we need squared mostly through talents.

Makes more sense to have the plate tankers armor/str heavy, while giving the beartanks more avoidance.
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Postby Tahl » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:50 am

500 strength seems lke a reasonable guess. Perhaps 180 or so base (I have around 115 now) plus 20-40str on most gear pieces it looks like. Let's assume 500.

Divine Strength is actually 15%, and that scales with Kings too. If you had 500 unbuffed strength you'd get 500 * 1.15 * 1.10 = ~632 strength. Without DS you'd have 500 * 1.1 = 550, so you're gaining 82str or 164 attack power.

From the Beta Testing thread, most of our spells include a coefficient for both attack power and spell damage. 182 AP extra AP would give you the following increases:

Seal of Righteousness -- 5% AP/sec, 10% SP/sec = 8.2dps (15.5tps)
Seal of Light: Health gained -- 28% AP, 28% SP = 51 health
Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained --- 14% AP, 14% SP = 25 mana
Judgement of Light proc: Health gained --- 18% AP, 18% SP = 33 health
Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained --- 9% AP, 9% SP = 16 mana
SoV DoT: Damage -- 7% AP, 3.4% * V SP => 17% * SP @ full stack = 13dps (25tps)
SoV Proc: Damage-- 1.2% SP = 0dps

If mechanics stay the same, 14ap = 1dps, so 182ap = 13dps (13tps) for our autoattack damage.

Hammer of the Righteous is based purely on weapon damage. Our new tank weapons will probably be slower to do more instant HotR damage; let's say 2.5 speed. Then 13dps adds 32.5 damage per target to each HotR, or 97.5 to all three, every 6 seconds for an increase of another ~5 to 16dps (~10 to 31tps)

2 str = 1 bv now. 82 str would give you 41bv (it is not multiplied by shield specialization). Shield of the Righteous does 200% of your BV as holy damage, so that's 82 extra damage every six seconds or ~14dps(~26tps) on a single target.

Totals, assuming you're using SoV: 13dps (13tps) Autoattack + 13dps (25tps) SoV + 5 dps (10tps) per target HotR + 14dps (26tps) ShoR = 45dps (74tps) on a single target plus 5dps (10tps) on two more targets of HotR

Compared to Seals of the Pure: 15% flat increase to SoR/SoV. Assuming you're using SoV.

SoV Rank 3 is currently listed on Wotlkwiki.info as 305 holy damage per debuff over 15 seconds. Judgement causes 333 holy damage per debuff. It scales with AP and SP.

Assuming the same 550 strength with kings and 800 spell power from stam and buffs.

DoT: Damage -- 7% AP, 17% * SP @ full stack = 1525 base, 77 from AP, 136 from spell power over 18 seconds. 1738/18 = 96.5dps, 183.5tps

Proc: Damage-- 1.2% SP = 9.6 damage per 2.5sec swing = 3.8dps (7tps)

Judgement: I didn't see a new coefficient for JoV yet, so let's use the old one for now (43% of spell power). That's 1665 base + 344 = 2009 damage every 9 seconds (assume 1 point in improved judgements), or 223 dps (424 tps).

Total SoV: 323dps (614tps). Seals of the Pure = 15% bonus, or 48dps (92tps)

----

Conclusion: Based on this (very rough!) estimate with 500 strength, 800 spell power, using SoV with an unknown coefficient on JoV, a 2.5s swing speed, and not counting 5% bonus from 1H weapon specialization, Divine Strength gives comparable dps and threat vs Seals of the Pure and also gives a small bonus to block value, making it the winner. Also the ~90tps we might get from this ability should grant more tps than 1H weapon specialization unless our threat is more than 1800tps (5% of 1800 = 90). This could change to favor one or the other more strongly if the numbers I made up are wrong. It's hard to predict how our strength and spell power will each scale at level 80 without seeing all the gear and knowing our base strength.

I think I'll be taking Divine Strength over Seals of the Pure after thinking about this. Feel free to correct me though!
Last edited by Tahl on Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:57 am

Has it been confirmed whether Shield Spec affects SBV from STR in beta?
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Postby jere » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:01 am

Tahl wrote:SoV Proc: Damage-- 2% SP = 0dps


There was a correction done on this later in the same thread. It is now:

1.2%*ws*SP

And shield spec does not affect BV from STR currently. I haven't heard of it changing in the Beta.
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Postby Truthiness » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:30 am

Arjuna wrote:maybe they will change it so that we will have more block and less avoidance at 80, and bring in massive str for the bv so we still can avoid taking tons of damage...that would mean we would have a steady stream of mana inc in raids atleast...

only nuking with hammer and shield thingys (abberations, I HATE YOU :P ) will eat 12% of our base mana every 6 secs...then we'll have judgements aswell at 5% every 8-10 secs...and holy shield for a flat 280 mana every 8-10 secs...

let's just hope our little SA will cope...or that blizzard soes something if it doesnt...


I'm not that worried about the mana cost of ShoR and HoR (abbreviations crit you for 900000) since it looks like we hopefully won't need consecration for single target threat. That damned spell devours mana. 12% of our base mana is actually considerably less that consecration's current 660 mana. By the way, have you noticed that level 80 consecration costs 1475 mana?!!!!
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Postby Tahl » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:47 am

I changed numbers for the SoV 5-stack proc coefficient and BV not scaling from Divine Strength. It's about the same. Seals of the Pure does grant slightly more threat vs single targets in this scenario since autoattack doesn't get any threat multiplier. It's minor though, and Divine Strength is better vs 3 targets plus it gives some BV still.
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