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Mana Back from Divine Guardian while ot'ing?

All things related to the expansion

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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:04 am

enbee wrote:I doubt it's gonna damage through bubble, there isn't a single skill ingame that if you aren't carefull when you use it you get gibbed :p


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=19752

*whistles*
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Postby enbee » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:11 am

..unless when it's actually mentioned in the tooltip.

Let me finish damnit!
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:12 am

lol

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
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Postby Amanor » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:13 am

enbee wrote:I doubt it's gonna damage through bubble, there isn't a single skill ingame that if you aren't carefull when you use it you get gibbed :p


I've heard of instances of Pallies Bubbling and killing themselves with Judgment of Blood, so that this damage wouldn't be soaked by it isn't entirely surprising.
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Postby Morendin » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:42 am

It would certainly be consistant with previous abilites for Divine Guardian to go through the bubble...

However,Shadow Word: Death, JoB, Lifetap, and Hellfire, which I believe is the total list of abilities that deal signficant damage to the user, are all DPS abilites, not mitigation abilities.

holding off on SWD until you get topped off doesn't defeat the purpose of SWD. if you are unable to bubble when there's nontrivial damage on the raid you can't actually use the talent when it would have a reasonable chance of preventing deaths, and you can't save your own ass with the bubble anymore, either.

Blue has stated that they don't want to make talents that make any ability do less than it does baseline, and if you take DG damage through the bubble, that's what happens.

Now, why would they say it's 'redirected to the paladin' as opposed to prevented outright?
2 reasons:
WotLK has serveral sources of immunity-piercing damage, Chaos Bolt being a notable example. I expect at least a few bosses to possess that, but it makes DG a bit less of an IWIN for a holy in PVP(not that they don't need HUGE buffs, just that if DG is too godlike in 5v5, that will prevent Blue from giving holy the loving it so badly needs in smaller brackets).

2nd reason?
Flavor.
This is a distant second, but they've shown attention to flavor in talent tooltips before- the best example being "cannot be stopped unless killed" abilities for Feral, Enh, and Beastmastery...mechanically, it means the player is immune to CC and slows, but they phrased it in a way that doesn't immediately, clearly state the effect in order to get some flavor into the tree, and just like that creates the right feel for a hunter/feral druid/ enh shaman, taking the raid's damage into themselves(even if immune to it) FEELS more paladin-like than simply negating damage on the raid.[/i]
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Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:45 am

? We have people in Beta. Have someone spec into it, grab a friend, have him fight something in party, and bubble. Shouldn't that give us the answer quickly?
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Postby Sark » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:17 am

moduspwnens wrote:? We have people in Beta. Have someone spec into it, grab a friend, have him fight something in party, and bubble. Shouldn't that give us the answer quickly?


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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:39 am

I believe that Lore made a post elsewhere that indicates that it has been tested and that the damage does go through our bubble.

EDIT:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... ht=#185379
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:15 am

I'm still not sure what test Lore is referring to though. Although I tend to believe that would be the intended functionality, I'd like to see something more convincing than a post by some smelly blood elf who isn't even in Beta ;)
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Postby jere » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:18 am

Dorvan wrote:I'm still not sure what test Lore is referring to though. Although I tend to believe that would be the intended functionality, I'd like to see something more convincing than a post by some smelly blood elf who isn't even in Beta ;)


I hosed him down and Fabreezed him before gleaning the information if that makes it any better.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:34 am

jere wrote:
Dorvan wrote:I'm still not sure what test Lore is referring to though. Although I tend to believe that would be the intended functionality, I'd like to see something more convincing than a post by some smelly blood elf who isn't even in Beta ;)


I hosed him down and Fabreezed him before gleaning the information if that makes it any better.


They just took the servers down, probably for a new push which they often do on Thursdays and Fridays. Anyhow, I'll try testing it again, and I'll post an SS.

EDIT: Actually it looks like it was just a reboot. Heading back to IF to respec now...
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:29 am

Ok, I don't know whether the skill is bugged or what, but I definitely do NOT take damage. Here is a screenshot. I have the bubble up, I have the talent, and the guy is right next to me getting hit by the spider thing. He's in range (has my aura) and I'm not taking any damage at all. There is nothing in my combat log either. Again, I have no idea if his damage is being reduced, he didn't seem to think it was, and he has no buff on him indicating anything. Maybe having the sacred duty talent messes it up, I don't know.


http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee23 ... 111511.jpg

I've tested this probably a half a dozen times now, all with the same result.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:31 am

Let's establish whether the damage reduction is working then. gogo :)
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Postby Jaydin » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:42 am

Fridmarr wrote:Ok, I don't know whether the skill is bugged or what, but I definitely do NOT take damage. Here is a screenshot. I have the bubble up, I have the talent, and the guy is right next to me getting hit by the spider thing. He's in range (has my aura) and I'm not taking any damage at all. There is nothing in my combat log either. Again, I have no idea if his damage is being reduced, he didn't seem to think it was, and he has no buff on him indicating anything. Maybe having the sacred duty talent messes it up, I don't know.


http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee23 ... 111511.jpg

I've tested this probably a half a dozen times now, all with the same result.


hmmm...so many questions...im not even sure the best way to test everything. 30% damage reduction should be noticeable, but if that reduction was before armor, that could bump it down some...dunno.

best way i think would be to simply have your friend attack the mob down to say 10% hp (giving him a nice threat bonus), then turn his back to the mob. have him sit there taking hits while you heal him. once you pull aggro (assuming you're wearing healing gear and not running oom), bubble, and continue healing him, again your friend keeping his back turned. record the numbers as best you can and compare the two sets. like i said 30% should hopefully be a significant change (hits for 250 going to around 175, or 150 going to around 105...aim for harder hitting mobs perhaps? maybe even sitting down to take crits if you dont have trouble healing him)
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:08 pm

Jaydin wrote:hmmm...so many questions...im not even sure the best way to test everything. 30% damage reduction should be noticeable, but if that reduction was before armor, that could bump it down some...dunno.


The order in which 2 multiplicative effects are applied doesn't matter.
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