WotLK Theorycrafting: MT specs and more!

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:50 pm

Worldie wrote:If i was to take Imp LoH i'd rather go like this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZV0tIx0dMgqeohoV0x0h

Aura Mastery as nice bonus, raidwide auras are raidwide.


You fail at "Link to this build" :P
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:53 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Worldie wrote:If i was to take Imp LoH i'd rather go like this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZV0tIx0dMgqeohoV0x0h

Aura Mastery as nice bonus, raidwide auras are raidwide.


You fail at "Link to this build" :P

Idd

I meant this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVhdMZV0tIx0dRgqeRGo
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Daredevil » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:21 pm

1 point in reckoning and no points in reckoning are roughly the same thing -_-
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Postby bjanssen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:43 pm



I used to have imp LoH to get the "oh shit" every 40 min ie once every second boss.

But do you really think that going from 20 to 16 minute cooldown is worth it?

Or is it the +50% armour for 15" that is doing it for you?

I also tend to think we're not going to need deflection, it's nice but not essential and same for imp judgement

So like you I think now we might be looking at the holy tree for supplementary tanking talents just not sure imp LoH is that good anymore. Actually beyond SoP I don't really see much in holy for tanks.
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Postby Tybalt » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:17 pm

Dorvan wrote:The thing is, crushing blows have nothing to do with why tanks throw avoidance into the mix.....otherwise we'd just rely on block rating and you wouldn't see people in favor gemming/enchanting for some avoidance.

I partially disagree with you here. Random, massive damage spikes are exactly why tanks gear for avoidance. Hurtful Strikes, Sabre Lashes, and other predictable mechanics can be compensated for, even in an EH build. Its the random, unexpected damage spikes that kill EH tanks.

Think the Prince Malchezzar's thrash... when it crushes.

I'm not saying that avoidance tanking is going away completely, but I think it will be heavily deemphasized. Removing crushing blows is just a symptom of the change, not the crux of the change itself. Look at thenew STR:BV ratio for further evidence.

I still expect Druids to be the go-to tanks when it comes to a fight that requires massive avoidance. On the same token, I expect Paladins to become the primary EH tanks in the game. As such, I plan to play to my strengths.
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Postby Soltyr » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:21 pm

bjanssen wrote:Or is it the +50% armour for 15" that is doing it for you?


Well if the armor curve remains the same or similar, I guess it means "Beardin" for 15 sec. More spec'd paladins, more sec..
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Postby Griffonheart » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:11 pm

A spec that I am just 'wondering' about, a spec goes by traditional +spell route with caster weapon:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

I know, without Judgments of the Just this is definitely the best mitigation spec, but it's very old school and not only it accommodates the new strength based system by utilizing AP, it also has the extra movement speed and crit, makes it very offensive, perhaps better as an OT spec. Plus, weapon speed doesn't have to be slow to be effective :) what do you guys think?
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Postby Tybalt » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:36 pm

Griffonheart wrote:A spec that I am just 'wondering' about, a spec goes by traditional +spell route with caster weapon:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

I know, without Judgments of the Just this is definitely the best mitigation spec, but it's very old school and not only it accommodates the new strength based system by utilizing AP, it also has the extra movement speed and crit, makes it very offensive, perhaps better as an OT spec. Plus, weapon speed doesn't have to be slow to be effective :) what do you guys think?

I think its WAY too early to think that a SP build still be viable in the expansion. I expect more and more of our abilities to scale with AP, and the SP itemization just won't be there come end game.
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Postby Griffonheart » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:26 pm

Tybalt wrote:I think its WAY too early to think that a SP build still be viable in the expansion. I expect more and more of our abilities to scale with AP, and the SP itemization just won't be there come end game.


Our spells scale with AP and +spell together, so both can be viable approaches. This spec certainly makes a better off-healer, if only one tank is needed for certain fight ^_^

You're right though, a little too early.
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Postby Khayne » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:25 am

Daredevil wrote:Deflection won't be needed as it is now, since Crushing Blows are no more. It's always nice to have some more pure avoidance, but I'm pretty set on Block being the FOTM.

Also, we've got 5% dodge as an opener, which we did not have before. The 5% Parry you are losing for not picking up Deflection is being compensated by 5% Dodge.

1 point in reckoning and no points in reckoning are roughly the same thing -_-


Well considering every new 1% of avoidance you get gets better the more you have, i don't really understand the "getting 5% more isn as good since i can get 5% elsewhere" if you can also take both. It's a different thing if someone rather go for more threat/imp. LoH, but when someone justifies not taking avoidance because he has some avoidance allready kinda sounds "wrong" to me. Also we didn gain 5% dodge purely since we lost the avoidance from 20 defense....it is a gain in avoidance, but i think it's below 2% gain in avoidance (can't remember the defense=>avoidance ratio), also you'll need to gear for more defense instead of purely getting more dodge in gear since we will still need uncrittability, further diminishing the avoidance gain in the change from defense to dodge in talent.
In related note, how much item points was that 20 defense compared to getting us 5% dodge now? Did we gain some? lose some? is it same amount?

Also the 1st point in reckoning is the most powerful, the gain in proc chance scales linearly, but the bigger proc chance you got the more you'll get overlapping procs that "waste" some of the time you had left from previous proc.
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Postby Griffonheart » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:18 am

Khayne wrote:Also the 1st point in reckoning is the most powerful, the gain in proc chance scales linearly, but the bigger proc chance you got the more you'll get overlapping procs that "waste" some of the time you had left from previous proc.


Is there a graph comparing each pt of Reckoning? More pts = more overlapping but less pts = less procing also. 3pt/6% was the idea # because we didn't have other pts to spare.

I'd think that, essential talent aside, I would put the left over pts into Reckoning but it would never be my first choice. My style doesn't require me to have 5/5 Reckoning, although I do want to have more than 1pt ^_^
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Postby Khayne » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:55 am

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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:08 am

Daredevil wrote:1 point in reckoning and no points in reckoning are roughly the same thing -_-

1 point means good uptime when tanking more than 3 mobs

0 points means no uptime
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Mouse » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:00 am

Qapla <Attrition> Cho'Gall
80 Tank DK

EnsgnBlack <Attrition> Cho'Gall
80 BE Prot Pally
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Postby Klimpen » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 am

Honestly, I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with a spec I'm really happy with, due to lack of points.

1 chance that'd make my life entirely easier:

Move Deflection to T1 Ret.

Wouldn't even need to swap it with anything, just have 3 5pointers in T1 and a total of 5points in T2.

Under that assumption, http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZE0tIxczMgseoGoVb

I'd also recommend that BoK was baselined and BoS was removed from the game. It's unfair that one of the two [BoW/BoM being the 'other'] blessings that we give have to be talented. Especially as Raiding-Holy's looking at being Holy/Ret and Ret'll probably be on BoW/BoM in any case.

Oh, and add in the usual spiel about consolidation and reduction of required talents and unification of our threat mechanics.
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