Remove Advertisements

Wotlk... doubts with gears

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:22 am

Sabindeus wrote:My apologies. Consecration does NOT scale with Spellpower.

That changes things, but I'm not sure how much.


You mean strength? I'm confused
I rule.
moduspwnens
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Shattered Hand

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:26 am

Ok here's my theory:

Single target tanking will be best served by stacking Str.

Multi target/trash tanking will be best served by stacking Spellpower.

I think they need to make Consecration scale with AP to merge those two categories.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10470
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:26 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:My apologies. Consecration does NOT scale with Spellpower.

That changes things, but I'm not sure how much.


You mean strength? I'm confused


yes.
i need more sleep.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10470
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby DeadlyRabbit » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:33 am

Blizzard is trying to avoid the problems with TBC and prot palys, pre heroic and kara gear meant you were wearing warrior tanking gear with the Greatsword of Horrid Dreams http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27905 later on with the BE dailys you could get yourself a Crystalforged sword http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32660.

The mitigation from the gear was decent, but our threat gen even with salv on the dps was low and I would get complaints from our locks all the time that they wanted a warrior tank because prot palys didn't generate enough threat.

Once the paly tanking badge gear was out, and we were getting T5 and a little later T6 gear all the complaints about threat went away because the gear had mitigation and spell damage stats.

The general attitude to prot palys is because of the lack of viable gear tailored to our spell damage threat gen at pre-raiding levels, people pug with a prot paly that will have either horrible mitigation because they are stacking for spell damage (even using healing gear with the 30% coefficient introduced later) or they are using all plate tanking gear with no spell damage for threat.

With a 3rd plate tanking class in the expansion they needed a way to make sure everyone could find gear that works for them, and by changing the mechanics they solve the problem,

I am sure a lot of guilds get tired of DEing the prot paly tanking items in BT and even more prot palys are tired of waiting for the prot paly tanking items to drop, with WotLK it will be easier to spread gear around to 3 plate wearing tanks when every piece is viable for all of them, tanks were too hard to gear for raiding before all the current badge gear was out and that held back some raids.

By the time we have hit 80 in the expansion after the official release I am sure we are all going be telling new prot palys about how horrible the old system was pre WotLK.
DeadlyRabbit
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:03 am

Postby Sechs » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:33 am

Find this topic hilarius.

Some of you guys seriously think we will have problems aoe tanking now because we move away from "funny" itemization with spell power? lol xD

Also making less random gear drop from bosses is a really good thing, As it is now its fucking retarded i have killed bloodboil over 40 times guess what? I still don't have the Shadowmoon Insignia... That is almost over 1 year of farming.... We really DO NOT need more gear added to the loot table!
Sechs
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:11 am

Postby Dragonzbane » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:52 am

It really seems as though some of you are not even paying attention to all the changes being made across the board (not just to our class) because if you were you would ask some of these questions.

Regardless, let's all take a deep breath and think about the following statement:

We have no idea what Tier gear "looks" like.


Now, we are guarenteed that Warrior, Deathknight and Paladin set will look differently. Will Blizzard actually take different Models and give them the ame exact stats?

Don't know for sure, but I'm leaning against that.


The only problem I see is if they continue to itemize Tier sets like they do now.

I don't want a different Tier set if it's going to give me less Dodge and Parry (avoidance) than a Warrior.
I don't want a different Tier set if it's going to give less avoidance than a Deathknight.


With all the built in agro reduction for DPS classes, threat output isn't the top of my concerns list right now.
Image
Dragonzbane
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:58 am
Location: In the Forums, stirring the pot.

Postby jere » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:06 am

Sabindeus wrote:Ok here's my theory:

Single target tanking will be best served by stacking Str.

Multi target/trash tanking will be best served by stacking Spellpower.

I think they need to make Consecration scale with AP to merge those two categories.


Of course with the mana cost of consecration, and how the mechanics of the mana reducing talent for it read, I am starting to guess that consecration won't often be part of our single target tanking rotation unless we simply need a mana dump. That is just speculation on my part though.
Image
User avatar
jere
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:08 am

jere wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Ok here's my theory:

Single target tanking will be best served by stacking Str.

Multi target/trash tanking will be best served by stacking Spellpower.

I think they need to make Consecration scale with AP to merge those two categories.


Of course with the mana cost of consecration, and how the mechanics of the mana reducing talent for it read, I am starting to guess that consecration won't often be part of our single target tanking rotation unless we simply need a mana dump. That is just speculation on my part though.


Yeah that's basically what I was getting at. I would say that using a downranked Consecrate on single target or low target pulls where you don't have to conserve mana, and of course max rank if we are taking huge damage and need to mana dump.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10470
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:13 am

I'm too busy thinking about what an unstoppable farming machine I will be with 1k spell power, 1k block value, reckoning, and a triple-target strike. I figure I'll have a couple days head start before anyone else gets to 80 to think about the gear issues :P
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:22 am

Erendis wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:We'll wait and see I guess. But i'm reasonably optimistic about the effects of the Sta - Spellpower conversion + a Spellpower weapon and Shield for AoE.


I don't see that being good enough in an AOE situation. Lets give a tank with 2000 stam. Thats 600 spell damage. I'll say you can squeeze in another 400 from weapon and shield and enchants. So 1000 spell damage. That seems like a alot. But when kind of threat will mages (for example) be putting out at level 80? Esp since they are getting rid of blessing of salvation?

My issue is from a mechanical standpoint is also: Why do they move away from spell damage only part way? We obviously still need it. So some of our threat will be added to from physical source but some from spell damage. I don't see a consolidation of stats at all. I see a need for even more stats but the gear won't support that.

Now, IF they made the pally tanking tier sets roughly along the same lines as the current pally tanking gear and made the rest of the non-tier tanking pieces based around traditional warrior warrior model then I don't think I would have the same issue as I am having now.


Well our entire t6 set only has 269 spell damage, so getting 600 at level 80 seems to be reasonable scaling. Guess what though, our AoE tanking has been nerfed a little bit simply because of the salvation change. It has nothing to do with strength, our threat doesn't go as far as it used to, and for an encounter with more than 3 targets, we didn't get any new way to generate more of it unless they are undead/demons.

I find the spell damage/spell hit/intellect mechanic clunky, and at the end of the day it never worked all that well. Is it possible all this gear will be optimized for warriors over us? Sure, but we do use the exact same mitigation stats that they use. So I'm like the idea of going a new route over one I don't think ever worked.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Jonlo » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:27 am

PsiVen wrote:I'm too busy thinking about what an unstoppable farming machine I will be with 1k spell power, 1k block value, reckoning, and a triple-target strike. I figure I'll have a couple days head start before anyone else gets to 80 to think about the gear issues :P


I hit level 70 in 4.5 days (I did sleep and eat you jerks!) As prot, using the old 2.0 talents and gear I found on the ground/leftovers from 60 raiding.

This time I get proper gear, more damage, and everything is undead? I'm going for the new high score!
Image
Jonlo
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:16 pm

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:27 am

jere wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:Well the only mitigation you get from it is BV, which hasn't shown up on any non shield armor yet. Since DKs don't use shields, it may not.


Well, also bear in mind that we are seeing random greens/blues from early Northrend. When BC came out, how many greens/blues had block value on them as a stat? I don't recall many, though there could have been a few I guess. We really haven't seen everything yet, and we haven't even seen raid level gear up to or past the the first raid. (remember how kara level gear was itemized differently than later raid gear).

It will be interesting to see how it plays out and what stats they add or don't add. The DK mechanics do you make you wonder if BV will be removed as a stat, but then the inclusion of our SS talent, which doesn't affect STR related BV, makes me wonder if we actually will. So we might end up seeing it on some gear down the road once people start getting further in the game.


There was some. That said, I saw some armor with block rating on it in the beta, so it's definitely possible to have some gear with block value. The only difference is with the change to the str to bv ratio. That could make for some really high block values, but maybe that's what blizzard wants.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby jere » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:31 am

Fridmarr wrote:
There was some. That said, I saw some armor with block rating on it in the beta, so it's definitely possible to have some gear with block value. The only difference is with the change to the str to bv ratio. That could make for some really high block values, but maybe that's what blizzard wants.


I decided to do a search. Nothing until BEM, level 70 dungeons, heroics, and raids.

http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter= ... =0:0#0+2+1

I didn't see anything from HFP, ZM, BEM, or even Nagrand
Image
User avatar
jere
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 5:12 pm

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:32 am

I bet Shield Spec will be refactored to include BV from Str
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10470
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby Rothes » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:35 am

PsiVen wrote:I'm too busy thinking about what an unstoppable farming machine I will be with 1k spell power, 1k block value, reckoning, and a triple-target strike. I figure I'll have a couple days head start before anyone else gets to 80 to think about the gear issues :P


I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they restat BC tanking gear to follow the new mechanics for specifically this reason.

Also, hello, long time lurker first time poster. ;)
Rothes - Protection Paladin - Bloodscalp
"When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you."
--Lao Tzu
User avatar
Rothes
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:27 am

PreviousNext

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest