Wotlk... doubts with gears

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Postby Sharlos » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:40 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


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Postby Karock » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:26 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


Yeah I dunno why people feel validated with "spellpower" on their gear but not with "strength." They both even start with S's!

I'm glad to have the majority of plate tanking gear that drops be useful for me in wotlk instead of having most of it be like "eeeeh I guess I have to use this" or "omfg finally a decently itemized piece of spell damage tanking plate?!"
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Postby Erendis » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:27 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


No, but if I wanted my Stats/mechanics to be the same as a warrior I'd have rolled warrior. I want to have to balance mitigation with spell damage. I like the fact that Pally tank gear has different stats than Warrior tank gear.
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Postby Sharlos » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:34 pm

Erendis wrote:
Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


No, but if I wanted my Stats/mechanics to be the same as a warrior I'd have rolled warrior. I want to have to balance mitigation with spell damage. I like the fact that Pally tank gear has different stats than Warrior tank gear.


Our mechanics still are the same.

and as for stats, we can still use spell damage enchants. It will just takea while to figure out which is most optimal.
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Postby Erendis » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:37 pm

Karock wrote:
Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


Yeah I dunno why people feel validated with "spellpower" on their gear but not with "strength." They both even start with S's!

I'm glad to have the majority of plate tanking gear that drops be useful for me in wotlk instead of having most of it be like "eeeeh I guess I have to use this" or "omfg finally a decently itemized piece of spell damage tanking plate?!"


Eh, its just that the homogenizing of the gear just seems boring to me. It also smacks of laziness of Blizzards part. Instead of giving us well itemized armor they decided to just have us use traditional warrior stats. When the went to AP for ret I lost almost all interest in actually going ret for the random heroic/kara.
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Postby Karock » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:42 pm

Eh, its just that the homogenizing of the gear just seems boring to me. It also smacks of laziness of Blizzards part. Instead of giving us well itemized armor they decided to just have us use traditional warrior stats. When the went to AP for ret I lost almost all interest in actually going ret for the random heroic/kara.


I just don't understand why having "spellpower" written on your gear is more fun/less boring than "strength" is all. I know for myself, it makes little difference.

And I don't believe they're doing it because they can't figure out how to itemize our gear well, I think they're doing it because it makes it so much easier to make drops USEFUL to the raid - especially since there is going to be such a large focus on 10 man raids. What would you do in your 10 man raid if "warrior and deathknight" gear was constantly dropping when you only had a paladin tank?
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Postby Amran20 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Um... I have a problem with strength being our threat stat. Why, you ask? BECAUSE IT DOES NOTHING FOR US.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:06 pm

Erendis wrote:
Karock wrote:
Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


Yeah I dunno why people feel validated with "spellpower" on their gear but not with "strength." They both even start with S's!

I'm glad to have the majority of plate tanking gear that drops be useful for me in wotlk instead of having most of it be like "eeeeh I guess I have to use this" or "omfg finally a decently itemized piece of spell damage tanking plate?!"


Eh, its just that the homogenizing of the gear just seems boring to me. It also smacks of laziness of Blizzards part. Instead of giving us well itemized armor they decided to just have us use traditional warrior stats. When the went to AP for ret I lost almost all interest in actually going ret for the random heroic/kara.


I think it's an acknowledgement of a flawed system. I think folks are too quick to forget how horrendous all gear was when TBC released. Blizzard had to do several small and one major patch where the bulk of the changes was about gear. You could even argue that sunwell radiance is a bandage fix for gear getting away from them a bit. I highly doubt they want to put so many resources into that again, and I don't blame them.

Not to mention at the end of the day, all the "offspecs" ( I hate that word ) complained about their gear constantly and usually with good reason.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:20 pm

Amran20 wrote:Um... I have a problem with strength being our threat stat. Why, you ask? BECAUSE IT DOES NOTHING FOR US.


huh?
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:21 pm

Amran20 wrote:Um... I have a problem with strength being our threat stat. Why, you ask? BECAUSE IT DOES NOTHING FOR US.


pay attention, son.
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Postby Erendis » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:23 pm

Karock wrote:
Eh, its just that the homogenizing of the gear just seems boring to me. It also smacks of laziness of Blizzards part. Instead of giving us well itemized armor they decided to just have us use traditional warrior stats. When the went to AP for ret I lost almost all interest in actually going ret for the random heroic/kara.


I just don't understand why having "spellpower" written on your gear is more fun/less boring than "strength" is all. I know for myself, it makes little difference.

And I don't believe they're doing it because they can't figure out how to itemize our gear well, I think they're doing it because it makes it so much easier to make drops USEFUL to the raid - especially since there is going to be such a large focus on 10 man raids. What would you do in your 10 man raid if "warrior and deathknight" gear was constantly dropping when you only had a paladin tank?


It's really an idea of flavour more than anything. I view paladins more as spell casters and less of melee combatants. Its not an issue of good or bad for me. I just don't like using warrior style plate and would rather have tanking plate with spell damage.

Fridmarr wrote:I think it's an acknowledgement of a flawed system. I think folks are too quick to forget how horrendous all gear was when TBC released. Blizzard had to do several small and one major patch where the bulk of the changes was about gear. You could even argue that sunwell radiance is a bandage fix for gear getting away from them a bit. I highly doubt they want to put so many resources into that again, and I don't blame them.


In my eyes they changes to gear in WotLK seems like a bandage fix as well. Instead of making a complex system solid they decide to just simplfy. The easier the thoeries behind the game the less and less I'm interested in it.

Is making the gearing easier a smart move on Blizzards part? Probably. Most people want an easier time to get more powerfull. I simply don't like the route they took.

I had a similar feeling with the latest round of badge rewards. I got them because they were there and were very good. Why pass up an upgrade? On the other hand I don't think they should have been introduced. The level of reward was much higher than the level of difficulty in getting that reward.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:27 pm

Erendis wrote:It's really an idea of flavour more than anything. I view paladins more as spell casters and less of melee combatants. Its not an issue of good or bad for me. I just don't like using warrior style plate and would rather have tanking plate with spell damage.


some of us have been fighting for the Holy Warrior ideal since release. So go away.
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Postby Amran20 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:01 pm

Ok, IIRC, 2 Str = 1 BV?

And strength would also add to our overall weapon damage, increasing threat from HotR.

Where else am I missing now?
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Postby Tev » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:55 pm

Worldie wrote:I don't see "Class: Warrior" nor "Increases your Rage by X" nor "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" on that gear, thus it's not warrior gear, it's tanking gear.

Or you refused to use any shield beside Illidari Runeshield until now?


If you got a better way to get blizz to update profiles so that it saves my tank gear and not my soloing gear, I'm all ears, until then save snide comments like the one you gave me for people who actually deserve it.

oh and "Increases your Rage by X" = STR/AP/CRIT, "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" = BV

I'm sorry if you didn't realize that those are the stats they use for Rage/Shield Slam abilities respectively. I'll be honest, I have little use for Str/Ap/Crit right now and would prefer to keep it that way. I'm at 2 sets of gear I use for Khara, I don't want to have to make room for a 3rd come the WotLK raids.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:04 am

Tev wrote:oh and "Increases your Rage by X" = STR/AP/CRIT, "Increases the damage of your Shield Slam by X" = BV


Those happen to work well for warriors, yes. However, the point is that come Wotlk, they will be good for us as WELL. Consider how much more often we will be blocking hits, and suddenly block value will end up being a much bigger proportion of our mitigation than for warriors (esp since shield block will have a long cooldown -- though they have talents to make it proc a refreshed cooldown).

Now, how AP or BV will affect our threat is a different story. I expect our abilities will have damage (or threat) that scales with them.

edit: as for gear sets ... only time will tell what we will need.

- Tanking gear. Probably have a "threat" set as well as a "boss tankin'" set, but they will probably share more pieces than ours currently might.
- Healing gear
- DPS gear

I don't really see the number of sets of gear changing much .. with the exception that we won't need an Uncrushable set as well.
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