Remove Advertisements

How would you clean up the prot tree?

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Kitsuna » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:26 am

It seems ret went on a diet for some multi-point talents. Hopefully Jenny Craig has prot booked next.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. -DoW
User avatar
Kitsuna
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:54 pm
Location: Burn the Heretic. Kill the Mutant. Purge the Unclean.

Postby Rhaegon » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:19 am

jere wrote:One thing I have thought about, and am still not totally sure I like, but maybe switching Divine Strength and Benediction. That would free up points for both ret and prot pallies if they wanted to. Given that we don't have to reseal after every judgement, it won't be as big of a loss for those who decide not to take Benediction, and it would pretty much give us an avenue to Deflection that gives greater benefit.

Still on the fence on this idea, but it has been floating around in my head for a bit.


this

..or switch benediction with deflection..could free up 5 points for prot
Rhaegon
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:42 am
Location: Italy

Postby Velgarn » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:45 am

Various possible options to help the tree out.

Switch (Divine Strength, Deflection)
OR Switch (Imp. Blessing of Might, Deflection)
Retadins in raids have no use for this talent. It's either a prot talent, or a ret PvP talent. The second option still allows a 5 pt. dip to into ret for prot pally, and still allows holy/ret specs to get benediction->might.

----------

Modify (Redoubt) - Increase your block chance by +1%/pt. Damaging melee and ranged attacks against you have a 10% chance to increase your block chance by 5%/pt.
Same 30% block chance for AoE tanking when the proc goes off, but now an improved 5% block chance when fighting bosses. Makes the talent at least useful all the time.

Shield Specialization - Either leave it alone, OR merge it into above talent as 6% per talent point. (Note: leave this alone is perfectly fine, IF some of the other ideas below would be implemented)

-------------

Merge (Combat Expertise, Reckoning) - Add the expertise bonus to Reckoning.
AND Merge (Ardent Defender, Combat Expertise) - Add the 10% stamina boost.
OR Reduce (Combat Expertise, Reckoning) to 3 point talents.

The reason for this change is that Reckoning, in my experience, causes me to get 'insta-gibbed' by thrashing bosses like Prince. Adding the expertise to that talent is very synergistic, because the expertise will lessen the chance of being reckoning-proc parry-gibbed on a thrashing boss, or on any boss for that matter. I really cannot think of a more logical place to add the +stam% too than Ardent Defender. It's also fits well thematically.

Changing them both to 3 point talents would at least give a few more points to mess with if nothing else.

-------------

Remove (Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Sanctuary) - Kings to all paladins.
Replace (Blessing of Sanctuary) - Sanctuary of Kings - Your blessing of kings reduces all damage taken by 20% of casters block value, and reflects 1% of all damage taken as holy damage reflecting a minimum of 10% of casters spell damage. *
* The above %'s should approximate current values, though better values would have to come from testing.

All paladins could cast each blessing, but now each tree specializes in a particular blessing. Protection pally Kings essentially becomes Kings + Sanctuary, except the Sanctuary part actually scales with gear. Additionally, the bonuses gained actually work for Druids and Death Knights since it no longer requires blocking.

---------------

Remove (Improved Holy Shield) - Roll it into the base Spell
Remove (Spell Warding) - Roll into new ability.
Replace (Improved Holy Shield) - Spell Shield (2 pts) - Reduces damage taken from spells by 2%/pt. In addition, while holy shield is active, reduce damage taken from spells by 50%/pt of block value.

Death Knights seem to have some sort of ability to increase spell resistance (stacking) as they get hit by magic of a certain type, as well as the ability to slow caster speeds. Warriors have 10% (vs. 6%) from stance (Righteous Fury). Warriors improvement talent is 6% vs. our 4% reduced damage from spell. Additionally, warriors have spell reflect and shield bash. This would give paladins something, certainly not as powerful as the other tanks, but something useful and unique to help lessen the incoming damage spikes a little bit.

--------

Together these changes would reduce the amount of points required by about 4-8 points, while adding interesting new talents.

Only other option I would like to see possibly is moving pursuit of Justice down a notch, because it would be quite nice to have a choice between mitigation/speed, threat, or raid crit bonus, depending on how many other paladins you have, or what content you are working on. (Perhaps we won't need run speed in WotLK, but I love it for A'lar and just in general, and more spell mitigation, even pathetically low mitigation, is still mitigation.)
Velgarn
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:14 am

Postby moduspwnens » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:51 am

Velgarn, regarding Redoubt, wrote:Makes the talent at least useful all the time.


Check out the thread I made last night that nobody replied to regarding Redoubt:
http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=11179

If we have Sunwell levels of avoidance, and there are several reasons to believe it's likely, we can count on Redoubt for approximately 5.5% passive block averaged over time. There's a very good chance that it will be useful on bosses.
I rule.
moduspwnens
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Shattered Hand

Postby Velgarn » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:11 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Velgarn, regarding Redoubt, wrote:Makes the talent at least useful all the time.


Check out the thread I made last night that nobody replied to regarding Redoubt:
http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... hp?t=11179

If we have Sunwell levels of avoidance, and there are several reasons to believe it's likely, we can count on Redoubt for approximately 5.5% passive block averaged over time. There's a very good chance that it will be useful on bosses.


I suppose I should have said, more useful. Still though, I think it would be a solid improvement on the talent overall. Even by your own calculations, I'm guessing if it gave 5% block rating + 25% on proc it would end up being better overall than the sheer 30% on proc. Which would not only have the psychological effect of making us believe it is a better talent, but an actual in game performance effect as well. (If my guess is correct anyway.)
Velgarn
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:14 am

Postby Splug » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:31 am

How would I clean up the prot tree? 409. That stuff cleans anything.

On a more serious note: the big difference isn't so much number of points in the tree, it's the major disparity between points outside the tree that are useful - and this is a problem that hits warriors as well. Druids get off fairly easy in this regard because feral is essentially isolated; there are a couple multi-purpose tallents in resto, but they can simply afford to purchase most of their primary tree and have very little left over outside it. Warriors are already looking at 11-12 points in arms being extremely useful for rage efficiency, imp thunderclap, and deflection. Cruelty is considered basically essential, so there's another 5 sunk in fury. I have a lingering suspiscion that impale builds will see a bit more love in 3.0, but the jury's still out on that - I need to see some threat coefficients before I really work on the math for that one.

The guys who really get screwed are deathknights. Every blasted tree has useful tanking tallents, marbled all the way through. So no matter which one you go with, the other trees both have decent options, all the way through. The "off spec" tallents they want exceed the total points available!

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Postby Sharlos » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:40 am

Main things:

3rd tier prot. This tier needs to be reduced. we need to spend 12 points in this tier alone.

Deflection. Move this to tier ne ret and we're set. no other changes needed. Prot wasn't bloated before imp. HS and combat expertise being made useful. So all we'd need is around 7 points freed up.
User avatar
Sharlos
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Australia

Postby PsiVen » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:04 pm

Reckoning -> 3 points 10% for 2/3/4 attacks
Redoubt -> Unlink, swap w/ 1HWS and merge with IDA, 3 points 4/7/10% plus IDA stuff
Spell Warding -> Roll into AD 1/2/3/4/5%
Toughness -> 3 points 4/7/10%

The reason for this change is that Reckoning, in my experience, causes me to get 'insta-gibbed' by thrashing bosses like Prince.

The only thrashing bosses in the game are Prince and... Gluth?
Gladiator Psiven, 90 Tankadin
90 Druid, 90 Mage, 85 Monk, 85 DK, 70 War, 70 Pal, 60 Priest, 60 Lock, 64 Rogue
Longtime addict of Space - Glory Through Conquest
User avatar
PsiVen
Moderator
 
Posts: 4362
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm
Location: On a Boat

Postby Chunes » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:15 pm

dragonhawk in ZA hits quick and hard
User avatar
Chunes
 
Posts: 2271
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:46 pm

Previous

Return to WotLK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest