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Change to Judgements!

All things related to the expansion

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Postby OmegaDN » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:59 am

One thing I’m not completely sure about is the new Judgment of the Just. Is it a new separate 4th judgment or will it be on ALL of our judgments. Personally, I would rather choose when to have it up. It would be kinda OP to have it on everything – I can see it being annoying as well.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:00 am

It's a additional effect for judgements, it's not a new skill.
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Postby OmegaDN » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:06 am

Hmm, I understand on most bosses this is be a GREAT thing. But am I the only one seeing the down side to this?

i.e. you overgear encounters/running alts through "older" content?

So now we slow a mob down by 20%, nab threat, and can put light/wisdom on it in one fell swoop?

So now we can have our cake and eat it too.

World of Warcraft: Rise of the Paladin .... COMING SOON

PS. I don't like cake :lol:
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:07 am

Thunder clap has always been assumed to be up on any boss you do.

There's no difference from before, just you won't need a pocket warrior now.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:08 am

From the beta forums:

Here are some preliminary numbers for Seal and Judgement coefficients. Please check and see if these match your results. Also, remember to account for talents.

WS = weapon speed
AP = Attack Power
SP = Spell Power

Seal of Righteousness: Damage = 5% * WS * AP + 10% * WS * SP
(Same for weapons with different base dps and for 1H and 2H weapons.)

Seal of Light: Health gained = 28% * AP + 28% * SP

Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained = 14% * AP + 14% * SP

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP


Edit:

Here are my initial Seal of Vengeance coefficients:

V = number of Vengeance debuffs on the target.

DoT: Damage = 7% * AP + 3.4% * V * SP => 7% * AP + 17% * SP @ full stack
Proc: Damage = 2% * SP


http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 0&sid=2000

As you can see, everything scales both ways!
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Postby OmegaDN » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:15 am

But what about the times when you *don't* want it up.

One of the key problems that we had before is that we were to reactive and didn't have enough control.

Now, at this point I'm probably playing more of a devil's advocate then actually complaining. I guess I just got to used to fighting teeth and nail for "respect" that now, this are looking almost too good.
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Postby Ashmadai » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:54 am

But what about the times when you *don't* want it up.


If you are doing content you overgear and don't want it up, go respec out of it? :D
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Postby Andox » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:42 pm

Oki, first, I´m sorry for bumping this topic up but I´m dumb and I don´t get how the new judgements work.

My questions are;

*When you use Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice, does that Judgement eal holy damage, or just the SoR/V/Corr?

*I´ve only seen Paladins in the beta use SoR when tanking, why don´t you use SoV/Corr, if it´s right that every hit apply the debuff?

*Do every judge of Wisdom/Light give you a small amount of mana, in addition to the debuff on the mob that return mana/health on hit?
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:52 pm

*When you use Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice, does that Judgement eal holy damage, or just the SoR/V/Corr?


They are the only judgements that exist, so yes they do damage. How much damage they do is based on the seal you have active.

*I´ve only seen Paladins in the beta use SoR when tanking, why don´t you use SoV/Corr, if it´s right that every hit apply the debuff?

Well, right now trash and quest mobs die too fast. You may see people use it on instance bosses though.

*Do every judge of Wisdom/Light give you a small amount of mana, in addition to the debuff on the mob that return mana/health on hit?

At the moment judging wisdom always procs it so I would assume the same is true for light.
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Postby Forlorn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Yeah at the moment mobs in northrend in the starting areas are pretty weak. I think they have things tuned for a fresh level 70 not someone that has been raiding for a while so things die fast. Im pretty sure this wont change much when it goes live since they need to keep the progression reasonable for newly leveled DK's. Since they arent giving out amazing gear in each quest mobs have to stay easy.

Once we get closer to 80 im sure i'll start using both SoR and SoV/C more often.
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Postby Andox » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:17 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
*When you use Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice, does that Judgement eal holy damage, or just the SoR/V/Corr?


They are the only judgements that exist, so yes they do damage. How much damage they do is based on the seal you have active.

*I´ve only seen Paladins in the beta use SoR when tanking, why don´t you use SoV/Corr, if it´s right that every hit apply the debuff?

Well, right now trash and quest mobs die too fast. You may see people use it on instance bosses though.

*Do every judge of Wisdom/Light give you a small amount of mana, in addition to the debuff on the mob that return mana/health on hit?

At the moment judging wisdom always procs it so I would assume the same is true for light.


Well, what I meant was, do the Judgement do ADDITIONAL damage, or only damage from the seal?

And the wisdom thing, did you mean thar´t we get maybe 200 mana EVERY time i judge it, or just from the procs?
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Postby Forlorn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:21 pm

Jugdements unleash the seal as normal. So if you judge SoR it will do what it normally would do + put wis/light/justice ont he mob.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:26 pm

Andox wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
*When you use Judgement of Wisdom/Light/Justice, does that Judgement eal holy damage, or just the SoR/V/Corr?


They are the only judgements that exist, so yes they do damage. How much damage they do is based on the seal you have active.

*I´ve only seen Paladins in the beta use SoR when tanking, why don´t you use SoV/Corr, if it´s right that every hit apply the debuff?

Well, right now trash and quest mobs die too fast. You may see people use it on instance bosses though.

*Do every judge of Wisdom/Light give you a small amount of mana, in addition to the debuff on the mob that return mana/health on hit?

At the moment judging wisdom always procs it so I would assume the same is true for light.


Well, what I meant was, do the Judgement do ADDITIONAL damage, or only damage from the seal?

And the wisdom thing, did you mean thar´t we get maybe 200 mana EVERY time i judge it, or just from the procs?


They just do the damage from the seal, they are unleashing the seals energy and that's what does the damage.

When you judge wisdom, it basically proc's the judgement in just like when you hit a mob and it procs. You get the same amount of mana back for judging as you do for hitting the mob. The amount is based off of some combination of your attack power and spell power. For me at the moment it's around 195 mana.
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Postby Telumehtar » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:36 pm

Seal of Righteousness: Damage = 5% * WS * AP + 10% * WS * SP
(Same for weapons with different base dps and for 1H and 2H weapons.)

Seal of Light: Health gained = 28% * AP + 28% * SP

Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained = 14% * AP + 14% * SP

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP


So question... if the above is correct, and we will now have scaling seals/judgements, won't this mean for min/maxing that we will want to assign judgements to specific paladins based upon their AP/SP?

i.e. If my prot pally has 800 ATK , and 800 sp, but that Ret Pally has 2000 Atk, and 500sp, wouldn't his Judgement of Wisdom generate a greater return than my judgement of wisdom? Hence wouldn't I want to skip judging wisdom for fear of overwriting his?

Could be some really interesting judgement battles otherwise.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:46 pm

Telumehtar wrote:
Seal of Righteousness: Damage = 5% * WS * AP + 10% * WS * SP
(Same for weapons with different base dps and for 1H and 2H weapons.)

Seal of Light: Health gained = 28% * AP + 28% * SP

Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained = 14% * AP + 14% * SP

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP


So question... if the above is correct, and we will now have scaling seals/judgements, won't this mean for min/maxing that we will want to assign judgements to specific paladins based upon their AP/SP?

i.e. If my prot pally has 800 ATK , and 800 sp, but that Ret Pally has 2000 Atk, and 500sp, wouldn't his Judgement of Wisdom generate a greater return than my judgement of wisdom? Hence wouldn't I want to skip judging wisdom for fear of overwriting his?

Could be some really interesting judgement battles otherwise.


No, the amount of mana you get back from JoW is dependent on the person hitting the mob, not the caster. Mortehl and I tested this, one of us would put up a judgement and we'd each hit the mob, but we got significantly different values back. The same was true for JoL.
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