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0/59/12 New Cookie Cutter Wrath MT Build

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Jayth » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:17 pm

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Postby Griffonheart » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:26 pm

How about this one?

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZV0tIxczGgoeRGoV0x

Pros: Got all the vital threat generation talent.

Cons 1: Guarded by the Light talent compare to Divine Guardian. Mana reduction or raid utility?

Cons 2: Weaker against spell.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:32 pm

QuantumDelta wrote:Tiandelin: We wont be using anything other than the generic tanking plate which will be the only tanking plate available, in WOTLK.
Generic tanking plate has a tendancy to occasionally drop points into STR/AGI (less commonly AGI these days) in order to not make it so weighted on item budget into two or three stats (gaining you more effective-ipoints for the item), so expect some - you might not be swimming in it, but that's part of the reason the talent will help, ATM you might actually get (based on warrior STR levels) a very similar amount of bV outta that talent as you would SS, and they stack, SS gains off the extra STR.


I don't know what tanking gear you've been looking at. It's been a while since I've seen any "generic" tanking plate that has strength on it. At lower levels, sure, you can find strength on a lot of pieces. However, I can't think of any tanking piece at T5+ level that has strength on it that isn't a warrior set piece.

Will WotLK tanking gear have a ton of strength on it? Maybe, maybe not. It's even possible that a lot of the gear on the way to 80 will have it, but that it'll be absent on raid gear like it is in TBC. Sure, there are screenshots out there of a level 70 ring and some leggings with strength on them. However, saying that all tanking gear will have strength on it is nothing less than pure speculation at this point.

If it turns out that all tanking gear has a bazillion strength on it, then Divine Strength might very well be worth it. We'll have to see. In any case, I would still question its requiredness.

QuantumDelta wrote:Reckoning - as the people who DIDN'T skip a shite load of content and did compete with other guilds world wide on progression will tell you that in even so far as SSC until your gear was really up to scratch avoidance wise, was an excellent talent, it was only beyond the very end of T4 content that it became redundant due to low uptime.
And in sunwell again it's a useful talent.


Key word: "useful". The issue people had was that you claimed it was "required". I don't think many people would say it's useless, but not many would say that you suck as a tank without it.

QuantumDelta wrote:I'd further like to note that - The more avoidance you have, the more powerful the next piece of avoidance becomes.
Parry is excruciatingly expensive at current (and will be even more expensive in WOTLK) and is well worth 5 points for 5%.


I agree on this point. Even though having to spend 5 useless points in first-tier ret hurts even more with all the goodness in prot.

QuantumDelta wrote:I'm not sure what you're expecting Dorvan, but honestly, at this point we wont be using consecration AT ALL (bar aoe tanking) unless Guarded by the light procs.


You can always downrank it slightly, unless they change the cost of the current ranks. Guarded by the Light should be up fairly often anyway, and the cost isn't that unreasonable when it is.
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Postby Damiun » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:33 pm

/castsequence reset=10 Holy Shield, Judgement, Seal of Righteousness, Shield of Righteousness, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous

Gives 1 second for latency (.2 latency makes this possible) but since its a macro you could just spam 1 button and it would remove most of that latency?
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Postby Lightrider » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:48 pm

Guillex wrote:
Worldie wrote:You skip divine guardian which is wrong. Take that over Imp Judgement.


Or 1/2 imp judgement, 0/5 reckoning.
imo that is better, also i would take the points from imp dev aura into pursuit of justice because i like the chance for spells to miss me and the movement increase makes my pally more fun
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Postby Mortehl » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:29 pm

This is the build I'm planning on using:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0xIx0dMgqeRGoV0x

- Devo aura is for a holy paladin to run. The prot paladin will run ret now that it will scale with spell damage and we'll be blocking a shitton more.

- Innate blocking threat from increased strength = win.

- Divine Guardian, while nice in a prot build is not workable. I'm not giving up spell warding for it for shit sure.

- No kings because kings is for the holydins.

- I already dropped imp judge in my sunwell spec because it messes up the rotation too much and 3 points in reckoning is better anyway. In Wrath I feel we're going to be WAY to pressed on gcd management to be able to deal with it.

Other then that, there's not really much flexibility in our builds. The plus to that minus is the massive mounts of ability synergy. Oh and a note -- I personally disbelieve consecration is going to be a major part of our single target rotation moving forward. I think it is going to be used for aoe situation exclusively which makes me happy face.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:41 pm

Mortehl wrote:- Devo aura is for a holy paladin to run. The prot paladin will run ret now that it will scale with spell damage and we'll be blocking a shitton more.

Not unless you're running Improved Concentration for him.

Retribution pally runs Ret Aura, for +2% raid damage and +3% raid haste.

Tankadin runs Devotion, for 1800 armour raid wide, and +3% healing.

Healer runs Concentration, and the entire raid is uninterruptible, plus bonus 30% silence reduction.

All three have talent improvements too deep to be sensibly picked up outside their primary specs.

Imp Devotion requires 18 points in Prot, Imp concentration requires 18 in Holy, and maxxed out Ret aura requires 43 points in Ret.

Mortehl wrote:-(Please increase the damage redux on Imp RF and we're complete)

Why? We're already tougher than warriors. You can get to 10% spell reduction if you want (I don't bother) and 6% physical reduction + 16% stam scaling + extra blocks means we can often take more physical punishment than warriors as well.

Only thing I want from Bliz is some of the 5/5 talents deep in the tree reduced to 3/3. Almost all of them actually. If you pick up all the tanking talents in the tree, you're looking at 63 points, without taking Spell Warding or Divine Strength, both of which are "decent".
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Postby Lightbeard » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:52 am

I dunno last time I speeced out of imp judgement it f'ed up my tps somethin fierce
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Re: 0/59/12 New Cookie Cutter Wrath MT Build

Postby Songblade » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:13 am

Lightbeard wrote:
Songblade wrote:
Lightbeard wrote:0/57/14 The New MT Build
This pretty much a 0/49/12 build with 10 extra talents added for the new stuff.

Advantages:
-Keeps all the old talents and grabs the new goodies
-Gains Hammer of righteous
-Guarded by Light
-Shield of the Templar
-Touched by the Light
-and Judgment of the Just
-Possible off dpser with the changes

Disadvantages:
-Not much hybrid left; healing

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tIg0zMgqeRGoVox0h


Fixed



No imp devo?


No.

This is why.

Imp Devo still increases your armor by a "fixed" amount, rather than a percentage of your armor, so it doesn't scale at all.

And the healing effect is only up to 3%. And granted, yeah, it's extra healing, and any amount helps, it's just not a good enough increase to make me say "Oooh, I want that."

I'm not saying it's a useless talent, I'm saying that it's not as useful (imo) as the other talents I picked up in that build.

Also, by what I see, with how the holy tree will work, any Beacon of Light Paladin will probably go down and get Imp Devo Aura anyway, which will then be increased to 40 yards and affect the raid.
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Postby Fenris » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:36 am

I've been reading around that SoR will now scale with ap,not +dmg (but i'm still searching for a reliable source)...


If that's it...I really have no idea of how to spec,already had problems without thinking of divine strenght....

:?
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Postby QuantumDelta » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:03 am

Well to be fair SoR ALWAYS scaled with AP(WD), it's just some ridiculously low value, looks like they just upped it, more than likely so that we can use generic tanking weaponry and AP rather than just SD now that we have our shiny Sta->SD talent :roll:
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ikinokoritai, umaranai kizum, hikari osoreteta
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Postby Teloc » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:35 am

I am really waiting on if str is going to be a big deal for us and if that 15% str talent is going to be a must have or will it be skipable. Since as someone pointed out earlier each point of str for a prot paladin is now a 1pt increase in damage on our holy shield slam.

Also imp devo will best be run by the prot paladin because you want your ret pally to run ret aura..and I already got my ret paladin taking all of the bonus ret aura skills, and your holy paladin will be running imp conc aura for all the healers/casters to not have pushback..so us while in melee range and around the people who will need the armor boost it makes the most sense.

A lot of the aoe dmg in raids is taken by people in melee since they tend to have more hp to take it. So who cares about if our aura is only 30 yards most of the people who are going to need it will be close enough.

Its not a must have, but if your working with a 3 pally team, you should pick it up to do your part.

As lore said earlier, I'm still waiting to know how Divine Guardian works. If we take that damage while shielding the rest..skip..cause there are many times I pop that bubble to save my butt, i don't then want to die in my "immunity bubble" cause of raid damage.

So...while I come up with different talent builds, I am still waiting on some more feedback from people in beta so I can see how all this works out. Though hopefully, we get 1 or 2 of our 5/5 talents dropped to a 3/3 or at least combined.
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Re: 0/59/12 New Cookie Cutter Wrath MT Build

Postby Teloc » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:45 am

Songblade wrote:Also, by what I see, with how the holy tree will work, any Beacon of Light Paladin will probably go down and get Imp Devo Aura anyway, which will then be increased to 40 yards and affect the raid.


Dunno, holy might go down ret for the extra crit chance, Also if you pick up every pve talent in holy you don't have enough extra points to get a full 3/3 imp devo. Cause right now holy has to waste 5 points in prot to get to the 2nd tier and then on that tier there is only one talent worth it for them in a pve setting, 3rd tier they get kings, but seeing as it looks like they are making paladins only stack up to 3 total.. for the blessings..4 if you count sanctuary.. they might not take the plunge for kings if they got a prot pally who can do it for a 1 point investment over their 11pts.

My holy build I'm playing with for wotlk talents is 56 holy/15 ret for the extra 3% crit on judgments bonus and 5% crit. Also with a 30yrd judgment..holy can judge from the back of the raid so if they got the mana they can help with some extra dmg without wasting a gcd if they seal before the pull 3 times with imp judgment.
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Postby Soltyr » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:08 am

Mortehl wrote:- Devo aura is for a holy paladin to run. The prot paladin will run ret now that it will scale with spell damage and we'll be blocking a shitton more.


At least in 25men raid, the point is:

there are 3 aura now (no counting res aura).
1) Devo, 2) Con, 3) Ret

As well as 3 usefull blessing (no counting crapsanctuary)
1) Wisd, 2) Might, 3) King


If you have an average of 3 paladin in raid (maybe also a ret with SR)
Prot is going to use the Devo, while it's more reasonable holy gives Conc to the ranged.
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Postby Tiandelin » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:44 am

If it's true that they're switch a lot of our skills to use AP, then Divine Strength does seem much more important. It makes it really hard to pick up Improved Devo Aura, though.

0/61/10 maybe?
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