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Wrath Protection Paladins made out like THEIVES!

All things related to the expansion

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Holyfuri » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:03 am

I think it is worth it. Now this is going to change if we end up using strength, but as of now I think my preferred prot build would be:

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tIxMdMgqeRGoVbx

We got a huge threat buff with talents to increase spell damage, an equivalent of shield slam, and a three target talented high threat ability.

We are now probably on par with warriors in mitigation with our equivalent of thunderclap on a single target now as well.

I'm pretty pumped.
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Postby Lumenactio » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:04 am

Its strange though... not sure what caused this post. I really didn't see that much complaining. Mostly people with questions.

Questions are good. None of us have the full picture yet. So being curious is natural.

I mean sure... there's the odd QQ thing. But overall... mostly positive.

Like I'd like to see some examples of tank itemization. There's a couple blue plate items so far, but one was pure spellpower and mana/5. And the other was stam/expertise.

Once we see more examples of tank gear I think we'll start to see a bit of a bigger picture of how the puzzle will all fit together.

I think it's interesting that we can use an actual tank weapon now and can switch to a caster weapon for boosted threat for AoE tanking via consecrate and such.

Lots of possiblities.
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:05 am

Io.Draco wrote:I can consider TBC as the rise of the tankadins , it started from hell and now we are in heaven , blizzard has held their end of the bargain , and even though Kalgan is a cunt , you know what , as the lead CM he fixed us , he gave us what we needed , and we should be happy for that , FINALY the tanking classes are BALANCED


I wouldn't go as far as to say we're in "heaven," as we're still 3rd choice for most TBC encounters. That said, if all the things in the OP are true, I'm very hopeful for WotLK.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:09 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:I can consider TBC as the rise of the tankadins , it started from hell and now we are in heaven , blizzard has held their end of the bargain , and even though Kalgan is a cunt , you know what , as the lead CM he fixed us , he gave us what we needed , and we should be happy for that , FINALY the tanking classes are BALANCED


I wouldn't go as far as to say we're in "heaven," as we're still 3rd choice for most TBC encounters. That said, if all the things in the OP are true, I'm very hopeful for WotLK.


eh im sorry should have said that

When we get these changes we are in heaven :P
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Postby Enkal » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:10 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:I can consider TBC as the rise of the tankadins , it started from hell and now we are in heaven , blizzard has held their end of the bargain , and even though Kalgan is a cunt , you know what , as the lead CM he fixed us , he gave us what we needed , and we should be happy for that , FINALY the tanking classes are BALANCED


I wouldn't go as far as to say we're in "heaven," as we're still 3rd choice for most TBC encounters. That said, if all the things in the OP are true, I'm very hopeful for WotLK.


I will hereby rename you: Kael'Thas! :twisted:


Disclaimer: sorry I couldnt resist. :P
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:12 am

Actually, I guess I'll have to do more reading, because I don't see any of the things in the OP in any patch notes. Hmm.
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:15 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:I can consider TBC as the rise of the tankadins , it started from hell and now we are in heaven , blizzard has held their end of the bargain , and even though Kalgan is a cunt , you know what , as the lead CM he fixed us , he gave us what we needed , and we should be happy for that , FINALY the tanking classes are BALANCED


I wouldn't go as far as to say we're in "heaven," as we're still 3rd choice for most TBC encounters. That said, if all the things in the OP are true, I'm very hopeful for WotLK.


We're still 3rd choice for all the tbc encounters who were designed before blizzard thought paladins were viable


That's it modus, stop saying paladins suck.
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:16 am

Joren wrote:
Flex wrote:
Question to you!

How needed is the parry with 5% dodge in Prot?

Sure its 5% avoidance, but is it a needed 5% avoidance?


I think it's a cheap 5 points spent there. Definitely worth it. Sure the parry was nicer, but it's still 5% avoidance.


As a tank, I always considered my job to be the following in order of importance.

1) Keep the mob wanting to eat me and not the other guy.
2) Avoid being eaten.

Talents like 5% more parry or 5% more dodge are must haves. The shear amount of damage we're going to be taking in Wrath is mindboggling. Just look at the new healing talents. I think raid bosses are going to be putting out upwards of 20k DPS o the tank. To put it in perspective, Brutallus puts out 10k DPS during his stomp phase.
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Postby Dapaladin » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:16 am

http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Paladin

there its not patch notes but its notes from alpha and im excited as hell!
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Postby Dapaladin » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:21 am

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIgczMgqeRGoVbx

assuming nothing changes that gonna be mah spec :D
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:22 am

Dapaladin wrote:http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIgczMgqeRGoVbx

assuming nothing changes that gonna be mah spec :D


I don't know about losing spell warding for imp judgment. That doesn't sit well with me.
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Postby Warcraft » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:25 am

Mortehl wrote:http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?paladin=05005000000000000000000000003000000000000000000000000050050335200210252155312321

I actually see the trees being fairly static.

2 big spec questions to be determined:

1) Is strength still useless as tits on a bull to us?
2) Is Imp Devo aura worth picking up?

Really I only see a grand total of 3 movable points in the main tankadin spec at this point and those are the points you'd put in imp devo as opposed to Seals of the Pure.

Edit: BTW I seriously got an e-woody when I saw this stuff.

To answer your spec questions...

1) Divine Strength is probably there as an incentive for Retribution Paladins to dip into Protection a little bit. It's not uncommon for Blizzard to mix up trees like that, especially for hybrids. Look at how many Feral talents are in the early tiers of the Restoration tree for Druids.

2) Considering that your auras are not limited to your party anymore, I don't think you will have a choice... It is a boon for any class to skip out on talents that benefit the whole raid. And the healing scales by percentage, too. 3% raid healing is huge.
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:28 am

Worldie wrote:We're still 3rd choice for all the tbc encounters who were designed before blizzard thought paladins were viable


That's it modus, stop saying paladins suck.


Without getting into an argument (that's what the other thread is for), I disagree. Kalec and Brut are not made for Paladins.
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Postby Sharlos » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:30 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Worldie wrote:We're still 3rd choice for all the tbc encounters who were designed before blizzard thought paladins were viable


That's it modus, stop saying paladins suck.


Without getting into an argument (that's what the other thread is for), I disagree. Kalec and Brut are not made for Paladins.


that's two bosses.. (and I know others that would disagree with your assessment on those two)
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Postby Zalaria » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:31 am

Warcraft wrote:
Mortehl wrote:http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?paladin=05005000000000000000000000003000000000000000000000000050050335200210252155312321

I actually see the trees being fairly static.

2 big spec questions to be determined:

1) Is strength still useless as tits on a bull to us?
2) Is Imp Devo aura worth picking up?

Really I only see a grand total of 3 movable points in the main tankadin spec at this point and those are the points you'd put in imp devo as opposed to Seals of the Pure.

Edit: BTW I seriously got an e-woody when I saw this stuff.

To answer your spec questions...

1) Divine Strength is probably there as an incentive for Retribution Paladins to dip into Protection a little bit. It's not uncommon for Blizzard to mix up trees like that, especially for hybrids. Look at how many Feral talents are in the early tiers of the Restoration tree for Druids.

2) Considering that your auras are not limited to your party anymore, I don't think you will have a choice... It is a boon for any class to skip out on talents that benefit the whole raid. And the healing scales by percentage, too. 3% raid healing is huge.


My guess is that the war-tools calculator's inclusion of Precision is correct, where MMO's omission is not. Ret wants that 3%, and currently has to waste points on imp devo or redoubt to get it. Moving Divine Strength from holy to prot gives them a useful 5 points to reach Precision. Otherwise, why move it?
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