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New WotLK tanking style

All things related to the expansion

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Postby Converse » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:14 pm

Alceste wrote:I've heard rumor that the damage-dealing seals will not be removed when you judge them. You'll only need to reapply the same seal when its 30s duration runs down, judging all the while.


I have heard this

This also frees up a GCD
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Postby Sharlos » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:45 pm

If judging no longer consumes a seal it kinda makes you wonder why have a duration on it at all.

The three judgement spells thing seems a bit clunky still though, especially with the non-damage seals still existing.

I think this change will go through a few more reiterations before live to make the system more straight forward judging from the amount of confusion its causing in the forums.
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Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:28 am

My panic button will be available every 30 seconds, and will also save me from taking the next hit.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=46950

Well, at least, that's the plan. We'll see how it turns out. ;D

EDIT: Did I click on the wrong thread? There doesn't seem to be any discussion of panic buttons here. My bad.
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Postby Aerien » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:05 pm

I'm guessing single target tanking is going to rely more on strength, and aoe tanking is spell damage. So our tanking style is going to revolve more around Hammer/Shield of Righteousness/* for single and Consecration/Holy Shield for multiple.

*with the odd Avenger's Shield if mana/timing permits.

Rotation for multiple:
Spam Consecrate, Holy Shield, Hammer, Sacred Shield, and Shield of Righteousness (if mana permits).

Rotation for single:
Seal, Sacred, Block, Avenger (hopefully it doesnt take 10mins go get to you), judge, ShieldoRight, Hammer, Block, ShieldoRight, Hammer, Judge, Seal, Sacred, Block, ShieldoRight, Hammer....
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Postby Tahl » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:59 pm

Lakhesis wrote:Haven't seen anyone include this in their rotations yet: Sacred Shield

35 mana is seriously cheap, but.. that's another GCD (assuming you don't have a holy pally doing it for you o'course). Opinions?

- Lakhesis


I love this little gem already -- it's like a Greater Rune of Warding on steroids. Note that it absorbs both physical and magic damage. On a hit of 10,000 it would grant a free 5% damage reduction. It is even more effective vs a dot (magic or physical) that ticks multiple times for a smaller amount.

On physical hits it shouldn't interfere with threat from blocking vs anything that hits harder than your BV+500. Holy Shield should still deal reflected damage even if part of the hit was absorbed, as long as a little damage gets through and is then blocked. With a six second internal cooldown it is especially nice vs single targets since it will be available on every 2nd or 3rd hit.

The spell is instant cast, and the details show a "N/A" for global cooldown. If this does not trigger a global cooldown when cast, it might could be macroed in to our rotation with another ability, like a seal with the same 30 second duration, just like you can macro judge and reseal to happen at once (which is no longer needed since seals are not removed when judging).

Old: hit this every 8 seconds
/cast Judgement
/cast Seal of Righteousness

New: hit this every 30 seconds
/cast Sacred Shield
/cast Seal of Righteousness

I'm really hoping something like this can be worked out so it will keep up the shield automatically without having to click a button every 30 seconds or rely on someone else to cast it.

Edit: there is some discussion among holy pallies as to whether this is a replacement for the missing Hand of Purity ("reactive heal over time with a twist") they were promised, and therefore might scale with healing/spellpower in the way a priest's PW:S does. If so that's great news for us, since we'd presumably get some bonus from our 30% stamina -> spell power conversion. Though it would not be so great for them, since it doesn't heal anything and doesn't kick in until the 2nd hit.
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Postby pyrotechniq » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:07 am

Lore wrote:Just for the sake of looking at GCD overlap, here's some possible threat rotations. Assuming 8 sec judgement, and the boss is undead/demon:

00.0: Holy Shield
01.5: Judge+Reseal
03.0: Consecration
04.5: Shield of the Righteous
06.0: Hammer of the Righteous
07.5: Exorcism (if applicable)
-
09.0: Holy Shield
10.5: Judge+Reseal
12.0: Consecration
13.5: Shield of the Righteous
15.0: Hammer of the Righteous
-
17.0: Holy Shield
18.5: Judge+Reseal
20.0: Consecration
21.5: Shield of the Righteous
23.0: Hammer of the Righteous
24.5: Exorcism (if applicable)
-
26.0: Holy Shield

So if Exorcism is being used, every other rotation all of your 8-second abilities will be pushed back by 1 second. 6-second cooldowns are basically never useable after 6 seconds assuming that Consecration is still a key part of the rotation.

Probably most importantly this means that GCD management is going to become a huge thing for us. Keep in mind we've still got things like Hand of Salvation and Sacred Shield, and using those is going to mean we're not using a threat ability. Doesn't look like cleansing the raid while tanking is going to be very doable.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something else as well.


From what ive heard their is no reseal. Like when you judge your seal is still up. I don't know if the 3 new judgements are off of global or not.

Edit: Few ppl alrdy said this but hadn't read that far yet
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:03 am

From beta videos it seems that judgements are still off the GCD, so you only need to reseal every <30 secs.
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Postby Aerien » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:11 am

Simplified Threat Rotation with 1/2 Imp Judgement*.

00.0: Seal
01.5: Sacred Shield
03.0: Holy Shield/Judge
04.5: Shield of Righteousness
06.0: Hammer of Righteous
07.5:
09.0:
10.5: Shield of Righteousness
12.0: Holy Shield/Judge
13.5: Hammer of Righteous
15.0:
16.5: Shield of Righteousness
18.0:
19.5: Hammer of Righteous
21.0: Holy Shield/Judge
22.5: Shield of Righteousness
24.0:
25.5: Hammer of Righteous
27.0: Seal
28.5: Shield of Righteousness
30.0: Holy Shield/Judge
31.5: Hammer of Righteous
33.0:
34.5: Shield of Righteousness
36.0:
37.5: Hammer of Righteous
39.0: Holy Shield/Judge
40.5: Shield of Righteousness
42.0:
43.5: Hammer of Righteous
45.0:
46.5: Shield of Righteousness
48.0: Holy Shield/Judge
49.5: Hammer of Righteous
51.0:
52.5: Shield of Righteousness
54.0: Seal
55.5: Hammer of Righteous
57.0: Holy Shield/Judge
58.5: Shield of Righteousness
60.0:

*Reason: 1/2 Imp Judgement makes it a multiple of 3 CD, simplifying the rotation and allowing it to also be coupled with Holy Shield.

PS You can add rebuffing Sacred Shield anywhere, its only 35 mana!
Last edited by Aerien on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aerien » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:22 am

Heavy Threat w/ Unlimited Mana + Undead.

00.0: Seal
01.5: Sacred Shield
03.0: Holy Shield/Judge
04.5: Shield of Righteousness
06.0: Hammer of Righteous
07.5: Exorcism
09.0: Consecration
10.5: Shield of Righteousness
12.0: Holy Shield/Judge
13.5: Hammer of Righteous
15.0: Seal
16.5: Shield of Righteousness
18.0: Consecration
19.5: Hammer of Righteous
21.0: Holy Shield/Judge
22.5: Shield of Righteousness
24.0: Exorcism
25.5: Hammer of Righteous
27.0: Consecration
28.5: Shield of Righteousness
30.0: Holy Shield/Judge
31.5: Hammer of Righteous
33.0: Sacred Shield (Blarg 1.5 Seconds of no sacred!!!)
34.5: Shield of Righteousness
36.0: Consecration
37.5: Hammer of Righteous
39.0: Holy Shield/Judge
40.5: Shield of Righteousness
42.0: Exorcism
43.5: Hammer of Righteous
45.0: Seal
46.5: Shield of Righteousness
48.0: Holy Shield/Judge
49.5: Hammer of Righteous
51.0: Consecration
52.5: Shield of Righteousness
54.0: Sacred Shield
55.5: Hammer of Righteous
57.0: Holy Shield/Judge
58.5: Shield of Righteousness
60.0: Exorcism
Last edited by Aerien on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:27 am

To add more spice, in theory with 0.5 cast speed, we can fit Avenger Shield into a threat rotation as well...
And Hammer of Wrath on < 20% Hp

Oh my god, gimme back my facerolling over consecration buttons.
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Postby Hexzon » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:32 am

Oh my god, gimme back my facerolling over consecration buttons.

Sigh i'll have to change my whole ui no more massive conc buttons
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Postby Aerien » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:32 am

Worldie wrote:To add more spice, in theory with 0.5 cast speed, we can fit Avenger Shield into a threat rotation as well...
And Hammer of Wrath on < 20% Hp

Oh my god, gimme back my facerolling over consecration buttons.


lulz i tried to fit in Avenger's but that .5 second push back in the rotation made me wanna take a hot bath with toaster.
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Postby jere » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:20 am

Worldie wrote:To add more spice, in theory with 0.5 cast speed, we can fit Avenger Shield into a threat rotation as well...
And Hammer of Wrath on < 20% Hp

Oh my god, gimme back my facerolling over consecration buttons.


You mean hammer of wrath at < 35% don't you :)
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:32 am

True, even earlier spam.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby PsiVen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:34 pm

There's no reason to include judgements in threat rotation timings. It's off the GCD and should be mashed immediately every CD (assuming you don't need to save it for something).

AS might not even be worth using if it's still a normal GCD incurred on the .5 cast. It has easily the worst scaling of any threat ability and will definitely stay that way as an AoE daze. Furthermore it's impossible to time between autoattacks against more than one target, so it would never hit multiples without risking chain pushback and facepalm wipes. Believe me, a few mobs that hit hard and catch you casting for half a second will blow you up FAST. I almost died once on M'uru when I got sloppy with my pickup toss on a slow wave, and it led to an add getting loose and gibbing healers.

HoW could be interesting to work in though. If it's a threat intensive fight I would certainly try to weave it in there.
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