WotLK Datamined Paladin Talent Trees!

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Postby Mavrix » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:46 pm

Looks like testing and time will tell
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Postby jere » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:49 pm

Levantine wrote:
Worldie wrote:What's the point of 30% less spell resistance if the base resist is 17%?

Unless for a HUGE change in resist mechanic (poor casters) that's 100% a typo.


I posted this earlier, but people seem to have glossed over it. I read the talent as being 30% OF the 17% resist chance, which works out to be about 5.1% spell hit. The math is earlier on in the thread.


Well, except your math is wrong. Reducing by 30% is multiplying by (1-0.3)

It would be 0.17*(1-.3) = 0.119 or 11.9%

Though it would be weird because this would be the only hit talent that goes in multiplicatively (the rest are additive). I am leaning more towards typo.
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Postby Chevalier » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:53 pm

Reducing by 30% meaning reducing the max resist chance of 17 by 30% or 5.1, Levantine is saying. Which means we would be getting 5.1% hit (which is spell and melee now btw I always forget).
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Postby Worldie » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:56 pm

All hit talents have always been additive. Shadowpriests get 10% less chance to be resisted, that doesn't mean they get 1.7% hit, they effectively get 10% hit.
Like jere said, it's 100% a typo.
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Postby Mizak » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:39 am

Divine Guardian imo should be in the Holy tree. It seems like it would be a great utiity for a healadin to have, and it's a bit deep in the prot tree atm for healadins to universally grab.

I mean, DG almost screams "OT", so it's like relegating yourself to that role. "Hey Mizak, we're gonna have Johnny the Warrior tank this boss, because we're gonna need you to pop DG during the fight, so be ready when we need you thanks!"

I guess it's going to come down to encounter design....but it's going to be hard for raids to pass up 30% raid-wide reduction......which means I'm guessing raids are going to be designed with this in mind.....which means pallies are going to need to pick up this talent.....which means prot pallies.....which means who's gonna be tanking the boss when DG is active? Not the prot pally. So why not just have the warrior or druid MTing the boss in the first place so you don't have to switch tanks for this mid-fight because you have to pop DG?
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Postby Nymeros » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:51 am

Good luck convincing a Holy Paladin to go into Prot for Divine Guardian or Improved Devotion Aura. They're all looking at 48/0/23 and similar specs.

Beacon of Light is underpowered and has no synergy with the rest of the Holy tree. Conviction + Sheath of Light give a substantial buff to efficiency and healing power and almost over-synergies with the Holy tree. It's another +5% crit and a HoT for 60% of the heal on every healing crit.
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Postby Mizak » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:11 am

Understood. That's why I said I thought it would be more appropriate if it was under the Holy tree.

The way it sits now, the only pallies who are going to pick up DG are prot pallies, and on encounters where DG is needed (again, it's going to depend on how raid encounters are in Wotlk, but you can make an argument that 30% dmg reduction is awesome in almost any boss encounter), prot pallies are going to be needed to pop DG......which means you won't be main tanking. I'm sure there will be exceptions, but it would seem that the best set-up would be to have a warrior MTing, and the pally OT-ing and ready to hit the DG "oh shit" button in case the warrior MT is going down, that way it will provide more time for the healers to catch up. It's even a bigger "oh-shit" button if the boss is doing significant AoE.....the last thing you would want in an encounter like that is your pally MT having to worry about maintaining threat AND watching for when to hit the DG button AND making sure your switch to your OT is smooth; it would be easier if your MT was your warrior just mashing away, and your pally is OT watching the raid's hps and hitting DG when needed.
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Postby Melathys » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:07 am

I can see holy paladins wanting to do that. Picking up heart of the crusader too, for raid utility while judging for spell haste.

Either way, I see holy paladins going into ret tree for 5% crit, even if they go 51+ into holy.



http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?pal ... 2155310321

I'm thinking thats what I'll use. With STR becoming much more important (and our gear likely getting more of it, since they want us sharing with DK and Warriors) 15% is huge. I'm also going under the assumption that Stoicism is replacing Precision. If this is indeed just a typo, then I'll use those 3 points elsewhere (like guarded by the light)

Divine Guardian. Highly situational. But I can see boss fights where we're main tanking and can still use it. Think Nightbane's flight phases.

Also working on the assumption that we will have to pick up imp devo aura for ourselves (otherwise I'd use those points in guarded by the light)

We'll also have to pick up kings every time if holy paladins are going into ret tree. No more "oh, my holy paladins will have it, so I can spend that talent somewhere else"

sigh, bloated prot tree is bloated. :roll:
Last edited by Melathys on Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Candiru » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:28 am

Surely the warrior will OT so he can give you +5% dodge as well as 60% damage absorption from imp.intervene?
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Postby Teloc » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:29 am

Candiru wrote:Surely the warrior will OT so he can give you +5% dodge as well as 60% damage absorption from imp.intervene?


not really, that 5% dodge comes with -10% threat.
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:32 am

jere wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Worldie wrote:What's the point of 30% less spell resistance if the base resist is 17%?

Unless for a HUGE change in resist mechanic (poor casters) that's 100% a typo.


I posted this earlier, but people seem to have glossed over it. I read the talent as being 30% OF the 17% resist chance, which works out to be about 5.1% spell hit. The math is earlier on in the thread.


Well, except your math is wrong. Reducing by 30% is multiplying by (1-0.3)

It would be 0.17*(1-.3) = 0.119 or 11.9%

Though it would be weird because this would be the only hit talent that goes in multiplicatively (the rest are additive). I am leaning more towards typo.


Yeah, it would make the miss chance 11.9%, which is 5.1% spell hit, which is what I said.

And just because Blizzard has done things in one way in the past, doesn't mean that they aren't doing things differently now. Stranger things have happened.
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Postby jere » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:38 am

Levantine wrote:
And just because Blizzard has done things in one way in the past, doesn't mean that they aren't doing things differently now. Stranger things have happened.


Well, the comment wasn't so much a past versus future comment, but more of a every other class gets it an additive talent, so it would make sense that this was additive, and it would be odd for them to single out one class.

EDIT:
Not to mention it would scale inversely with gear. No other class has a talent that has spell hit scaling inversely with gear.
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:46 am

The wording on the other classes is different to our talent though.
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Postby jere » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:48 am

That's why I believe it is a typo.
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well

Postby Mavrix » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:20 am

There's too much bloat in the prot tree!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
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