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Consecration Mana Cost to Dmg... WOTLK

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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:48 am

Ret paladins have a mana model? :roll:
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:01 pm

I think it involves a bag full of mana injectors. :)
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:03 pm

Kelaan wrote:I think it involves a bag full of fel mana pots. :)


fix'd
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Postby Spectrum » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:03 pm

I worry about this for 5-mans. So far my experience in TBC is that we don't really get enough mana back until we're in 10+ man instances with more than one healer on us.

In 5-mans, especially when your gear doesn't let yet you tank many mobs at once (heroics), I find that we go OOM quickly and are already having to downrank consc a lot. A worse coefficient would make tanking in small group s much more painful.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:08 pm

Teyrocar wrote:
Ulushnar wrote:A Parable for this, and other alpha posts:

<snip>

Win.


Lose...

and losers.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:14 pm

Spectrum wrote:...I find that we go OOM quickly and are already having to downrank consc a lot. A worse coefficient would make tanking in small group s much more painful.


Optimistically (who are you and what have you done with Arcand):
They're giving the other tanks better group-tanking tools,
they're making our group-tanking a smidge weaker by borking our mana efficiency,
and we're getting some single-target goodies to compensate.

Cynically (ah, there he is):
They're weakening us at our niche ability and the compensation will be negligible or ill-conceived.
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Postby Morpheren » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:12 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Dorvan wrote:
Arcand wrote:How much is our incoming damage increasing, though. If we're taking twice as much damage by the time we get rank 8 consecration, it'll be just as sustainable as the current one.


ding ding!

Out mana regen scales directly with the amount of damage we're taking.


Yeah but it's a class skill not a prot talent, so cutting the mana efficiency nearly in half has other ramifications.


Or new rank(s) of spiritual attunement
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:17 pm

Morpheren wrote:Or new rank(s) of spiritual attunement


I'd be fairly surprised at that....the spell already scales inherently, much the same way that you wouldn't expect to see a new rank of cleanse or Righteous Fury.
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Postby Splug » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:58 pm

I haven't looked in great detail, but I do recall people mentioning that all classes had most of their skills drastically increase in mana cost (to the tune of 1.5x-2x), and that BoW had jumped something rediculous as well. It could just be as simple as forcing up the mana consumption curve to encourage actually needing to get more mp/5 than the lv 70 gear offers to have the same mana economy, which would presumably become available with the lv 80 gear. Though, I haven't looked closely enough at the other spells to really know whether this is a greater % increase than the other abilities (or even other class' abilities) or not.

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Postby Airanna » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:17 pm

From what I've seen in screenshots from the paladin trainer in the alpha, nearly all of our spells are doubling in cost at the next rank. Not sure if the same is true of other classes though, I'll see what I can find. The benefits seem to be scaling oddly though.

For example, Hammer of Wrath doubles in cost but only deals ~100 more damage - whereas Seal of Wisdom doubles in cost but the mana gains per strike and Judgement are doubled as well.
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Postby Splug » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:30 pm

Ultimately, the cost:return ratios may change. But the big concern is, as Dorvan pointed out, what is the ratio of mana income:mana spent? If holy (and casters in general) gear has twice as much base mana and mana/5, then the change to spell costs is academic: the numbers just got bigger, but the meaning is the same. Prot can take twice as much damage, and thus it's no change there. Enhance's AP goes up, meaning their SR regen increases to cover their more expensive spells. Ret... who knows.

What cost:return ratios may change is which spell becomes "prefered" in different situations. For example, it may be less worthwhile to throw hammer of wrath instead of just consecrating, etc.

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Postby Arcand » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 pm

Airanna wrote:For example, Hammer of Wrath doubles in cost but only deals ~100 more damage - whereas Seal of Wisdom doubles in cost but the mana gains per strike and Judgement are doubled as well.


Worrisome, but no more than that until we see how Hammer scales. We currently have some of the worst coefficients under the sun so if those got buffed they'd have to adjust our base strength down.
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Postby Ashmadai » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:37 am

I have to believe if they're gimping consecrating it's so that they slightly weaken us as the go to tank for all things AoE and they're going to really buff our single target tanking. I gotta be optimistic or I'll go crazy.
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Postby Widdox2 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:01 am

Ashmadai wrote:I have to believe if they're gimping consecrating it's so that they slightly weaken us as the go to tank for all things AoE and they're going to really buff our single target tanking. I gotta be optimistic or I'll go crazy.


Ya, I hope that this means we aren't dependant on Consecration for single target threat gen.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:36 am

Widdox2 wrote:
Ashmadai wrote:I have to believe if they're gimping consecrating it's so that they slightly weaken us as the go to tank for all things AoE and they're going to really buff our single target tanking. I gotta be optimistic or I'll go crazy.


Ya, I hope that this means we aren't dependant on Consecration for single target threat gen.
That will only be relevant on harder trash, though. Any boss worth a damn hurts just too hard to give you reasons to save mana.
Heck, at that 1000 mana cost it's still an unlimited mana on so many fights.
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