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Stam or Avoidance in SWP?

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Stam or Avoidance in SWP?

Postby PapaNasty » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:28 am

I'm not currently into SWP yet (working on illidan when server isn't screwin our progression or have ppl thinkin their exams > wow), however have been trying to itemise my gear a little more for SWP over the past few weeks

OT more often than MT, however want to itemise well for sunwell and the radiance there.


From talking to the only prot pally on our server I know which is in sunwell, he reccommended gearing for avoidance, and had therefore gemmed more for avoidance than effective health

I was a big fan of avoidance tanking previously, however was thinking that gearing for effective health would be better in SWP than gearing for avoidance because of the radiance debuff.

Logic on this being, that avoidance or effective health scales better the more you have (e.g. 1% extra avoidance @ 50% avoidance twice as good as 1% dodge @ 0% avoidance), and likewise the more effective health you have the better it scales (Particularly when you take into account AD / Commendation & % scaling of stam so you get much more per itempoint + of course slightly more threat from additional blocks)


Or does it simply become too difficult for healers to heal through?


How do most of the sunwell tankadins itemise so far?
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Postby Elsie » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:35 am

both.

There isn't really itemizing one way or another in sunwell. There's only so much gear available at the right item level. You're basically using t6 and badge pants, then new t6 pieces. You can't gem for avoidance in sunwell, either. Bosses simply have too much burst potential.

Of course, there's a few cloaks and necklaces and trinkets to choose from, but item level plays a big part there as well. Shadowmoon insignia and MgT tend to be the most popular, and pocketwatch still plays a part. A lot of 'what you need' changes from boss to boss.
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Postby Ankh » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:16 am

From observations 44% avoidance (after counting the sunwell debuff) and 23k buffed seems like nice numbers.
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Postby Gerilith » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:41 am

Stam or avoidance is the wrong question. EH or avoidance would be better. You'll need both, but EH is preferred by most of the SPlat tanks if it comes to the question what your focus should be at.
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Postby Amran20 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:06 am

44% avoidance while knocking off 25% from radiance being 69% avoidance previously? Unlikely, tbh. I am geared fully for stamina, and I have 23K HP buffed, no imp, with shout. I have about... 60% avoidance buffed if I'm trying real hard.

Good luck achieving those numbers with loot prior to KJ.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:19 am

Stam or avoidance?

ARMOR


And, buffed with agi totem, i'm actually at 40-50% avoidance including radiance, so the numbers don't seemb that far away.

And i'm at 22k HP without Imp.
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Postby moduspwnens » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:00 am

Yes, things like the Pocketwatch aren't quite as useful here.

After all, when you have ~62% avoidance (outside of Sunwell) and hit your Pocket Watch, you go up 16% avoidance to 78%. Now you'll not take a hit on almost 4/5 attacks. In Sunwell, you're going from ~35% to ~50%. You're still taking half of the hits. Outside Sunwell, it feels like you're popping Evasion. Inside, it still helps some, but its effects are lessened quite a bit.

I'm not sure what's exactly better at the moment, as the stamina from DMC:V isn't monumental either. As of right now, though, I do use dual stamina trinkets, I gem for straight stamina, and the only avoidance I take over EH is my cloak enchantment.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:01 am

Just think like if you were going Karazhan...
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Postby Gerilith » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:37 am

Worldie wrote:Just think like if you were going Karazhan...

...pre nerfs in blue gear ;)
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Postby Splug » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:11 am

The "ideal" gear changes from fight to fight. I'd say the first three are more avoidance based, but you more or less need 22-23k health to survive an instant burst from Brutallus.

While tanking Kalecgos/Sathrovarr, most of my deaths are from just being slowly punched to death for 4-5k hits, and dps income exceeding hps income. Brutallus DOES have huge bursts, and you need enough to survive that, but 500 hp more or less isn't going to save you from the 15k bombs. If you have less than 22k, you risk being one-shot, but beyond that you're better off with avoidance and hoping to not take an unhealable string of hits. Felmyst is less avoidance-demanding than the other two, but it's really not that bad for the tank damage either way. The only thing worth noting is that corrosion -> auto -> cleave can suck, and dodging one of the melees helps a lot. There's a lot of magic damage too though, and avoidance doesn't help at all there.

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Postby PapaNasty » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:01 pm

Gerilith wrote:Stam or avoidance is the wrong question. EH or avoidance would be better.


hehe yeah this is more what I ment :-P


So from the references to doing kara in blues, I take it that survival is a much greater factor than in any of the other raids prior to sunwell?

On that basis, would I be best to look into using devotion more than ret aura? (Or more likely I'll just sub a holy pally into my group with it lol)
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Postby Gerilith » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:04 am

PapaNasty wrote:So from the references to doing kara in blues, I take it that survival is a much greater factor than in any of the other raids prior to sunwell?

On that basis, would I be best to look into using devotion more than ret aura? (Or more likely I'll just sub a holy pally into my group with it lol)

Yep. Not only Devotion, but Ironshield Potions, too. Threat is a secondary target.
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Postby Elsie » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:15 am

Okay, to make myself feel kinda silly before, I'll say what I've been doing. After 22-24k buffed hp, you can't get one-shot in Sunwell. Or, at least, not on the first 5 bosses. You're also using consumables / trinkets hopefully for 1750 / 2000 extra hp. So it becomes pretty feasible to start gemming for avoidance if you can keep that number. For instance, Borderland Fortress Grips probably are best with 10 dodge and 10 defense ( or 5 def / 7 stm) than 15 stam / 15 stam. You can't get one shot, you get spam healed anyway. The "6.5" shoulders if you gem 10 dodge rating 15 stam are roughly 0.67% avoidance behind tier 6, and 1 stam but gain 51 BV. Frankly, if you have any intention of using the cloak/neck from Sunwell you need to gem avoidance to make up for it.

I think I have maybe 3-4 gems now for avoidance instead of HP. On our new set bonuses we have a blue gem slot though, and I think 15 stam is the way to go on them since 5 defense / 7 stam can be a bit weak.

Our warrior tank, a tauren, has pretty much changed most his red sockets to 10 dodge rating and yellow to 10 defense rating and he's become noticably easier to heal.
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