Tanking weapons in Sunwell

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 22, 2008 11:21 am

Splug wrote:Conclusion: we both believe we got screwed because Blizzard thinks haste is better than we think it is. And now, back to you, Kil'jaedan!

-Splug


Close, you got screwed because blizzard believes haste is better than you think it is. We got screwed because caster weapons STILL aren't tanking weapons. Haste is a fine stat for casters, which is who all these weapons we use have been created for. At least up until now, we could make some (read very limited) use of all the stats on these weapons.

In this case, if you want to merely look at the net result, we lose EH, and we actually probably lose threat. 7 spell damage vs the Spell Hit/Crit on the Tempest, I'm not sure on the math for that, but we are talking about comparing two nearly insignificant numbers (in terms of TPS) in the first place.
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Postby Lore » Thu May 22, 2008 11:31 am

Splug knows what he's talking about

And again, note the 15 ilevel difference for Warriors vs our 5 ilevel difference. Of course it's a bigger upgrade for Warriors; they were starting with a worse weapon.

A more accurate comparison would be Hammer of Judgement vs Reign of Misery, and I think the Reign of Misery is the clear winner there.
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Postby Splug » Thu May 22, 2008 11:36 am

Lore wrote:Splug knows what he's talking about.
You give me too much credit. ;) But yeah, from an orc perspective, I'm basically adding an ilevel header for my free expertise to put Brutalizer on level footing with an archi/illidan weapon... and DEL fails/breaks even at that level. To go full circle: I have no idea on druid itemization. How does that staff off Twins work out for them? It looks like kitty gear to me... but I haven't leveled a druid so I know very little about them. Bistek is still lv 20-something...

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Postby Worldie » Thu May 22, 2008 11:54 am

Alrite, i splitted the discussion about the tanking weapons, feel free to continue it :>
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Postby Jonlo » Thu May 22, 2008 12:14 pm

Thanks Worldie, I was gonna ask that my thread go back to being about Kil'Jaeden :D
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Postby Splug » Thu May 22, 2008 12:34 pm

Yeah, I was starting to feel like we were getting off the beaten path and was trying to get back on topic, but eventually gave up and just figured "Hell, long as we're off in the woods anyway, let's talk about bears."

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Postby Jonlo » Thu May 22, 2008 12:37 pm

Splug wrote:Yeah, I was starting to feel like we were getting off the beaten path and was trying to get back on topic, but eventually gave up and just figured "Hell, long as we're off in the woods anyway, let's talk about bears."

-Splug


Bears are Godless killing machines
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 22, 2008 1:24 pm

Lore wrote:Splug knows what he's talking about

And again, note the 15 ilevel difference for Warriors vs our 5 ilevel difference. Of course it's a bigger upgrade for Warriors; they were starting with a worse weapon.

A more accurate comparison would be Hammer of Judgement vs Reign of Misery, and I think the Reign of Misery is the clear winner there.


Honestly, I don't really care about the comparison to warriors, it's not relevant.

My point was that RoM isn't an upgrade at all for single target tanking, even with the 5 Ilevel difference. The spell hit on ToC gives about .5% more threat, or 5 TPS per 1k threat produced. The 7 spell damage is about 3.5 TPS. Less stamina, less threat, same mitigation (AKA Zero) = downgrade.
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Postby Lore » Thu May 22, 2008 1:28 pm

Well that's probably true.

For people like me who don't really have a snowball's chance in hell at picking up Tempest though, it's kinda nice :P
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Postby sanctifico » Thu May 22, 2008 2:02 pm

Lore wrote:Well that's probably true.

For people like me who don't really have a snowball's chance in hell at picking up Tempest though, it's kinda nice :P


Just stopped MH and no going back, we never had a single one drop >.< /rng sucks.

Oh well pink mace of doom ftw!
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Postby Eneru » Thu May 22, 2008 2:22 pm

There should be a paladin protection sun mote turn-in with Kalecgos sword or Twins healing mace.

+holy damage, high stamina and armor is all we are asking for :x
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Postby Lucit » Thu May 22, 2008 2:23 pm

sanctifico wrote:Oh well pink mace of doom ftw!


More like saturday pug hyjal ftw. :)

(Got mine before we took Hyjal off the schedule, but we managed to get a ToC for a prot paladin alt a couple months back.)
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 22, 2008 2:31 pm

Eneru wrote:There should be a paladin protection sun mote turn-in with Kalecgos sword or Twins healing mace.

+holy damage, high stamina and armor is all we are asking for :x


Yeah, I think that's why some folks felt pretty slighted, there certainly is ample opportunity for a tankadin weapon. Also, adding Scryer's Blade of Focus to the badge vendor didn't help.
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Postby Katamai » Thu May 22, 2008 4:14 pm

err... who in their right mind would call Lollypop a tanking weapon?
It's a threat weapon just like Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade.

Tanking weapon would have a defensive stat which neither Lollypop nor ToC have.

So yes, i believe we are screwed since after Crystalforged Sword we don't have a real tanking in game. All we get is a threat weapon which is equivalent to warriors tanking with DPS swords which we all know isn't the case.

But then again, i've gave up on Blizzard and their sense of equality. As long as warriors are best, we are all allowed to be "equal".
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Postby Elsie » Fri May 23, 2008 1:46 am

I'm just happy Tempest of Chaos is a sword... now if only it will drop for me. Next up for it and no drops in a month. It's a pure paladin weapon now (for highly progressed guilds) with the sunwell staff/dagger/mace and illidan staff options for casters. Could just be me, though.

It is a bit sad that, even if the kalecgos sword is very equivalent to Brutalizer, they have a much better tank itemized weapon in sunwell. But really, the Kalecgos sword and Reign of Misery are both purely threat weapons.

Blizzard never wanted us to be equal, just close. Paladins can 'equal' warriors on dual wielders/fast hitters, are much worse on slow hitters, and are the -only- aoe tank.
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