Brutallus

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Dragonzbane » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:45 am

icydevarosp wrote:And yes both attacks can be separately dodged/parried/blocked


So correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm kinda confused.

- If the attacks are treated separately for the purposes of the attack table, doesn't that mean that they are considered 2 different attacks?

- If they are 2 different attacks then don't the occur at different times, be it a millisecond. microsecond or whatever?

- If they hit at different times shouldn't AD effect the 2nd attack when necessery?

- If AD does not effect the second attack isn't that a bug and shouldn't it be reported?

I know I'm doing a lot of extrapolation above but that's what logic would dictate as far as my thinking goes.

Of course, my first mistake is probably trying to apply logic to Blizzard game mechanics.
Image
Dragonzbane
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:58 am
Location: In the Forums, stirring the pot.

Postby Splug » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:32 pm

Hrm, you may be right in reporting it as a bug, because that logic does seem valid (and is why a lot of people seem less-than-pleased with the encounter). The most likely case is that nothing happens, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Though, to be fair, even if it IS fixed, sometimes Brutallus was hitting me offhand first. In which case, AD would still be unreliable if the offhand lands first (a mainhand hit for ~10k is very likely to leapfrog AD anyway, though at that point there's a small window in which it would work), but it would not be a nearly-total waste of the ability.

(For what it's worth, trying to gauge shield wall reactively is somewhat hopeless here too. It's still extremely effective as preventative damage reduction, but 60% -> 0 is fairly common on this fight.)

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Postby Elsie » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:05 pm

Perhaps we're assuming they're the same speed but in reality there's a slight difference to where the off-hand begins to swing first. That would explain the Ardent Defender issue.
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby Worldie » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:58 pm

The problem with AD is the server side calculation time.

It shares the same problem of for example Shield Block. Suppose that a warrior being attacked by 10 mobs uses shield block, and all 10 mobs attack toghether, and suppose the warrior has 25% base block and 0 avoidance.
The warrior will block all the attacks due to the server calculating SB up for all of them, and SB will fade after the calculation.

The server has something like a "pulse" where it determinates if a skill is up or not. If 2 hits happen between 2 of those "pulses", AD will not work. They happen at milliseconds between each other, but Brutallus attack speed is relatively high and can easily land 2 hits "at same time"
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13534
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Mithos » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:06 pm

Sucks that me and our only warrior tank (our other one quit recently) are barely geared enough for this (feral tank is fine for it though). Although I am pretty confident I can survive him, using the correct consumables.

The gear I am using (same for Kalecgos and anything new and nasty) is 2/8 T6 (Shoulders, gloves, also got legs but can't afford to use them), heroic badge chest, ilevel 127 engineering goggles (wru sunwell plans!), kaz'rogal shield, and other completely non ideal things. The guild has yet to see a faceplate from Illidan, and the only bulwark went to the warrior tank who has since quit, and I am yet to see Tide-Stomper's/Girdle of Mighty Resolve/Eternium Shell Bracers, as the only time they dropped I was away. The warrior is in slightly better gear but not that much. However, most of our healers and DPSers are geared to the teeth.

Still, (after that slight rant >.>) with the gear I described above I sit at 23.6k HP with CS and blood pact, but only 417 unbuffed spell dmg which quite frankly sucks balls, but I was never the first of the 2 tanks to die whilst learning the encounter except when he raped me 2 seconds into combat. Chain drinking Ironshields, and using nightmare seed/BB trinket during Stomp where available, and riding the luck during stomp itself (I guess most people have to do that anyway?), I can survive him. Only problem now is that my threat sucks in comparison to the other tanks whereas before it was better (due to gear differences).

One good thing is that he hits so unbelieveably fast and with low avoidance due to SWRadiance, holy shield and redoubt are godlike when combined with the BV libram, insane amount of blocks (my BV sucks at 343 unbuffed however) and very nice threat. Also due to having about 8 times as much mana regenned than I can use, burning mana with RF during CD downtime produces nice reliable threat gain with no down side, I also now pull any boss that gives me insane mana regen with 2300 mana, so that I get some nice extra initial burst threat whilst the rotation is setup, and is enough so that if I avoid everything for about 8 seconds, I will still have gone through one CD cycle and can wait for more mana (or forcibly recover some...).

I am having serious issues with threat mostly due to gear so I tried seal weaving recently. All I can say is SoV still hates me oh so much, and that despite being 2% over hit cap with 10 expertise and 17 spell hit rating, on good ol' teron today SoV just would not proc, I waited so long for it to stack up, and then it fell off again instantly, and with the GCD managment involved I just gave up in the end. But, it worked fine on Brutallus and Kalecgos. Was nice to whack a 5 stack up whislt the other tank was tanking (in either case), taunt, and then begin the cycle although it was still a bit iffy with it falling off at bad times.

I was thinking about reckoning as avoidance is low in SW, and I noticed your spec fiorina and I must say it's a very trade off :) (the parry/kings for 3/5 reck, dunno how many others have done this?). I would definatly like to try that out once I can up my avoidance.

Bit of a general post about the fight from what I have experienced, seems we can mitigate a hell of a lot more here than anywhere else with blocks and that with appropriate gear we'll be making nice threat and can stillreliably survive.
Image
Mithos
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:54 am

Postby Aetherial » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:33 pm

The fatass has fallen.

No Commanding Shout ftw lol :)

http://files.filefront.com/Brutallusmpg/;9971071;/fileinfo.html
Image
Aetherial
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:11 am

Postby Splug » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:26 am

Mithos wrote:Chain drinking Ironshields, and using nightmare seed/BB trinket during Stomp where available, and riding the luck during stomp itself (I guess most people have to do that anyway?), I can survive him.

Keeping up the shadowmoon insignia or a nightmare seed for every stomp was a huge help for me in surviving that bastard. Keep in mind that the stomps are on a regular cooldown, and that (if you're using the fairly common two-tank strategy) they should fall in roughly the same spot each time, though I don't know if "how far Brutallus had to run to the raid from his spawn point" plays a factor in that game. If you end up with the same rotation we have, the leadoff tank will have his third stomp almost imediately after taunting Brut - we tried waiting and letting him dump that stomp on the other tank but sometimes he threw slash #4 first. Since healing tends to get a bit dodgy right at the tank swap, I'd recommend making sure you have a cooldown ready for this stomp, even if at the price of missing an earlier one.

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Postby artofray » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:27 am

teckbot,

any idea what kind of TPS you were pulling on brut in your gear? Our guild uses warrior/druid on that fight but I've been itching to test it out for our 3rd/4th kill coming up. If reckoning is popping up as much as you say it is and judging from how much damage your holy shield did you must've had some really neat threat.
artofray
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:13 am

Postby Splug » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:33 am

Trying to analyze WWS's from this fight for tank threat is going to be a bit difficult, since tanks only have a 50% duty cycle, and it's with significantly reduced threat output. I know I've been all over the place on Omen too, largely based on how many misdirects I was fed for a given rotation.

-Splug
Active raid character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... an&n=Spyte
255 characters is not enough to fit my alts' armories in.
User avatar
Splug
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:16 am

Postby Teckbot » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:48 am

artofray wrote:teckbot,

any idea what kind of TPS you were pulling on brut in your gear? Our guild uses warrior/druid on that fight but I've been itching to test it out for our 3rd/4th kill coming up. If reckoning is popping up as much as you say it is and judging from how much damage your holy shield did you must've had some really neat threat.


Without Reckoning I recall seeing omen registering my threat at 1.4k+ before AW, and almost 2k with AW. However, Omen is borked for Protpallies right now and does not attribute threat correctly for our Taunt or for Holy Shield.
- Teckbot
<Lunacy> Proudmoore - Alliance
The Teckbot tanks all, usually by accident.
User avatar
Teckbot
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:39 pm

Postby Croiky » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:49 pm

Aetherial wrote:The fatass has fallen.

No Commanding Shout ftw lol :)

http://files.filefront.com/Brutallusmpg/;9971071;/fileinfo.html


Is the paladin to your left chain casting blessing of wisdom on himself? Why? and can i get a folder copy of your UI? /drool
Image
Croiky
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:43 pm

Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:55 pm

That's just effect of the badge libram, the proc looks like BoW
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13534
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:59 pm

Hyjacking the topic, what would be considered a appropriate DPS for a ret paladin for this fight?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13534
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby Eliane » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:07 pm

We have our retribution paladin aim for atleast 1500.

He's normally Holy but we're considering letting him go retribution and his gear is decent.
Image
Eliane
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:59 am

Postby Lieris » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:28 pm

Anything between 1500-1800 is good. Unfortunately the fight lasts 6 minutes which is not optimal for Avenging Wrath: you are only going to get 2 in and the cooldown for your 3rd will be up just as the fight finishes. He has high armour too so I don't think he is too flattering for ret paladins. You're not going to do Teron quality DPS on him I don't think.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sunwell Plateau

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest