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Brutallus

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:52 am

Atreidies wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:Now could anyone help me make a good argument as to why paladins would be better tanks for this fight?


Stomp debuff hurts a druid more than any other tank. Armor reduction by a % will kill their whole appeal as a tank since they will lose a MUCH higher % of DR than a war/pally will.

Crazy threat immediately following a taunt, assuming you're lucky you get wicked holy shield threat until you block 3 or 4 in a row and bite it.

Druids uhh... Something. Realistically I don't think this is a fight where a specific class wins, Shield Wall can save the day if it's pre-emptive, but really not going to do much if you use it reactively. It's about gear and the healer's switching tanks correctly and upranking on the tanks during Stomp.

He just hits so damn hard and fast that our AD will likely never help us, Last Stand/Shield wall almost have to be used before you know you'll die, and 75% DR on a bear doesn't mean jack shit when they get Stomp and have far less mitigation than either of the other tanks for that period. I don't see a particularly swell reason to choose one tank over the other based on class for this.


I see , well I gues ill just have to talk with him , if he will listen meh...
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:13 am

Just tell them that if you tank they can pop bloodlust on pull :D
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:07 pm

Worldie wrote:Just tell them that if you tank they can pop bloodlust on pull :D


right... my raid leader denied me when I said I could give 3% crit to the whole raid ...( lack of a active ret pala ) , i don't think he would agree to what you said...

Anyhow I did some number crunching with the tankspot calculator for damage reduction and well...
Without Stomp I had 86.10 DR , Druid 87.18 DR
With Stomp I had 80.25 DR , Druid 79.63

This is without consider block value ( got 500 ) and considering we are full raid buffed , now there is also 1 thing , the druid is armor capped while I am not thus meaning I can get the shaman/priest buff , meaning that in stomp I would have 82.49 DR , and without I would have 88.75 DR

I hope I can convice him with this but bleh .....
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Postby darklac » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:07 pm

Io.Draco wrote:
Worldie wrote:Just tell them that if you tank they can pop bloodlust on pull :D


right... my raid leader denied me when I said I could give 3% crit to the whole raid ...( lack of a active ret pala ) , i don't think he would agree to what you said...

Anyhow I did some number crunching with the tankspot calculator for damage reduction and well...
Without Stomp I had 86.10 DR , Druid 87.18 DR
With Stomp I had 80.25 DR , Druid 79.63

This is without consider block value ( got 500 ) and considering we are full raid buffed , now there is also 1 thing , the druid is armor capped while I am not thus meaning I can get the shaman/priest buff , meaning that in stomp I would have 82.49 DR , and without I would have 88.75 DR

I hope I can convice him with this but bleh .....


you do understand the druid can get the armor buff as well dont you?... so yea your maths wrong a druids going to take less damage on stomp then you are sorry mate.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:28 pm

darklac wrote:
Io.Draco wrote:
Worldie wrote:Just tell them that if you tank they can pop bloodlust on pull :D


right... my raid leader denied me when I said I could give 3% crit to the whole raid ...( lack of a active ret pala ) , i don't think he would agree to what you said...

Anyhow I did some number crunching with the tankspot calculator for damage reduction and well...
Without Stomp I had 86.10 DR , Druid 87.18 DR
With Stomp I had 80.25 DR , Druid 79.63

This is without consider block value ( got 500 ) and considering we are full raid buffed , now there is also 1 thing , the druid is armor capped while I am not thus meaning I can get the shaman/priest buff , meaning that in stomp I would have 82.49 DR , and without I would have 88.75 DR

I hope I can convice him with this but bleh .....


you do understand the druid can get the armor buff as well dont you?... so yea your maths wrong a druids going to take less damage on stomp then you are sorry mate.


ye your right


thing is ill still reduce more dmg :P
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:55 pm

Your raid leader didn't consider 3% raid crit on brutallus?

Change guild already :\
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Io.Draco » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:23 pm

Worldie wrote:Your raid leader didn't consider 3% raid crit on brutallus?

Change guild already :\


Actualy he did consider it , and recruited a retri pala wich is semi active , when I said I could give the raid the 3% crit in his place he denied me to come there

Anyhow after I talked with him now he belives that armor mitigation is the best thing , not avoidance , and that palas are the worst tanks for this fight
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Postby darklac » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:16 am

Io.Draco wrote:
Worldie wrote:Your raid leader didn't consider 3% raid crit on brutallus?

Change guild already :\


Actualy he did consider it , and recruited a retri pala wich is semi active , when I said I could give the raid the 3% crit in his place he denied me to come there

Anyhow after I talked with him now he belives that armor mitigation is the best thing , not avoidance , and that palas are the worst tanks for this fight


ok lets put it this way lets say you have 20k armor without ironshields or priest buff. you fain 5k from armor buff so your at 25k you get stomped your down to 12500 armor a druid is going to have far far more armor stomped then you. a druid is going to have 17.5k armor without a armor buff.. your block wont make up for that. sorry to sound like im slaming you just stateing facts.

as of your role on brut if your tanking him wear mita. gear holy shield is a ton of threat but lets face it if you dont score a dodge/block/parry or he misses when your stomped on 1/4 to 1/5 attacks your going to die its a ton of damage this fight is more on your healers then it is on you. your a tank your jobs to keep aggro and help stay alive when you can. a healers job is to not fail and keep you alive.
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2nd attempt on brutalus

Postby rohanadin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:30 pm

This is my 2nd attempt on brutalus and i,m shocked because both times i took less dmg than the warrior who had alot better gear, and both tanked brut an equal amount of times. Here,s the wws report: http://wowwebstats.com/wnefyedch16vk?s=103184-136296
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:10 pm

you get stomped your down to 12500 armor a druid is going to have far far more armor stomped then you. a druid is going to have 17.5k armor without a armor buff.. your block wont make up for that


Say a 21k swing before mitigation. You end up with:
Average hit on 17.5k armor: 8525
Average hit on 12.5k armor -6% -700 blocked: 8952

The difference isn't ridiculously big. A druid at armor cap with the same health as you will have less avoidance. Since the only concern here is burst death (your healers are around 50% overhealing or they aren't doing it right), it's pretty much a wash.
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brutalus

Postby rohanadin » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:06 pm

1 shotted enough said
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Postby Worldie » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:04 pm

darklac wrote: if you dont score a dodge/block/parry or he misses when your stomped on 1/4 to 1/5 attacks your going to die its a ton of damage

that's true for all the 3 tanks

No matter what's your class, if you take 4 hits in a row after a stomp, you die. (actually, just 3)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: brutalus

Postby Worldie » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:05 pm

rohanadin wrote:1 shotted enough said

Dragonscale Entrusted Longsword and 2x stam trinket
/questionmark
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: brutalus

Postby Donjuan » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:32 pm

Worldie wrote:
rohanadin wrote:1 shotted enough said

Dragonscale Entrusted Longsword and 2x stam trinket
/questionmark


I see he also has ring of hardened resolve and crimson paragon cover, where as none of the wariors in his guild has it(as far as i can tell)? please tell me they were sitting the day that stuff dropped? (not that you cant have that stuff, just can imagine the warrior qq:P)
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Postby Ankiseth » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 am

if your guild is in love with other types of tanks, and you're a main raider, ask for a ret set.

Seriously. You can go ret whenever you don't tank(Felmyst if everyone shows up, Brut, Twins, KJ depending on strat).

The only reason I could see *not* bringing a pally is the ability to LSSeed/Wall the last few stomps.

The reason *most* paladins seem to get wrecked(in my experience) is lack of debuffs/debuff synergy. It's VERY VERY easy to forget that the warrior you took out was the one TCing a mob. Or that "we need either imp Demo or Imp CoW to counteract reck".

If all those are up, the only difference between us and the other tanks is... T6 BP :(. WHY'S IT SO BAD FOR THAT FIGHT?
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