Tanking Brutallus: Gearing for it, and surviving it.

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Tanking Brutallus: Gearing for it, and surviving it.

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:56 am

Hi fellow Paladins, it's your favourite belfadin again.

This is my second attempt in making a guide on something "important" (well, we don't need a guide about tanking Najentus, do we?).

Brutallus is pretty much the definitive tank check, survivabilty fight where you need proper threat as well.

This guide will again be divided in multiple parts.

==================BASE KNOWLEDGE==================
First of all, let's look for the fight overally. There are 2 abilities you should be keeping track of:

Meteor Slash:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=45150
Depending on the raid composition, this damage should be split by 6-8 people per tank side. It will be the major source of raid damage, but it's also your way of tracking when to taunt.
The HP of the DPS and healers will not survive a 4th slash. That means, you will taunt between the 3rd slash on the other tank, and the 4th. The timing depends on the time remaining on your debuffs, when you are sure you can taunt and the next slash will happen after your slashes debuff wear off, it's the good moment.

Stomp:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=45185
A very evil invention from Blizzard: this will reduce your armor by 50% for 10 seconds, and it's the main "tank killer" for this fight. A very common way to die is getting roflstomped (see below).
Bare in mind, sometimes you will die, no matter your gear. That works for any of the 3 tanking classes: unlucky is unlucky.

==================YOUR STATS, SURVIVING IT==================
Alright, if you are going to tank Brutallus, you will absolutely need best quality gear. If you haven't got most of the drops from BT and MH, don't even bother, you will not make it unless you are extremely lucky, but that luck would have been better used to win the lottery.
  • Armor: Armor is your friend. Aim for as high armor as possible. You absolutely must be using Ironshield potions. Improved Devotion Aura is a plus, armor scrolls are a plus. Aim for 20-21k armor at least.
    Inspiration/Ancestral Fortitude play a major role in helping tanks surviving the Stomps.
  • HP: With the above armor, Brutallus will likely swing for 6-8k main hand and 2-3k offhand. The Stomp will hit for 6k, and the damage from MH will increase to 9-11k, and from offhand to 4-5k. This means that the highest possible burst is 6k+11k+5k, an average of 21kish damage. Will likely be reduced by 25% armor buff and Improved Demo Shout, but anyway, you want about 21500 hp, with 22500 being optimal. Any more than those is quite close to useless, you will not survive a 4th hit in a row anyway.
  • Avoidance: Brutallus Dual Wields, but he got the Sunwell Radiance. It's not clear if he gets the dual wielder penality, so i'll assume he got the 5% standard miss chance.
    That said, this is a avoidance fight: you should aim for as high avoidance as possible while mantaining the HP and armor said above. Any buff which can increase your avoidance is good. If you can get more than 50% avoidance post-radiance, you are very well geared for this. Anywhere higher than 40% should do, the more the better.
  • Spelldamage: If you are at this point, you should have at least 4-6 pieces of tier 6, plus possibly Hammer of Judgement or Tempest of Chaos. Those + oil are enough honestly. At least 2 T6 pieces is a must. 4 T6 is perfect. Avoid using T6 legs, they fail in stamina.
  • Trinkets: The best combo for this fight is Shadowmoon Insigna + Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch. However, not everyone is lucky enough to have them, and not everyone can meet the EH requirement for this fight without a stamina trinket.
    Mainly there's few trinkets which are Very good (C) for this fight:
    - Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch: The best "stomp" trinket. 15% avoidance during the stomp? Yes please. The 2% passive dodge is as well nice.
    - Shadowmoon Insigna: 1750 HP during stomp, plus a very high passive avoidance.
    - Ancient A'qir Artifact: Not optimal, nor as good as Moroes', but got about the same passive avoidance (1.9% parry vs 2% dodge) and a interesting on use for 2500 more armor during Stomp. Consider using if you lack avoidance trinkets.
    - Commendation of Kael'thas: Seriously, the buff from this trinket will literally be up everytime the internal CD finishes. It's just bad that you can't control it.
  • Spec: Big debate over this... well, Ardent Defender is not great for this fight, but it can (despite what many say) save your life some times. I recommend including Ardent Defender, Shield Specialization, and at least 1 point in Reckoning. Redoubt and Reckoning will have a absurd uptime here, and Shield Spec, if combined with Libram of the Lightbringer, grants us basically 400 more block value, which is a lot. If you don't have a holy paladin in your group you can consider speccing Improved Devotion Aura. Improved Seal of the Crusader is recommended, 3% more crit for the whole raid is huge (unless you got a ret paladin as well)
    If you are 40/21, at least during stomps, i recommend using Devotion Aura unless you can get another paladin in your group.

==================BUFFS AND CONSUMABLES==================
Again you'll obviously want all the standard buffs. Commanding Shout is a big plus, that's 1200 less HP to get from gear. Ask for a Shaman in your party for Grace of Air. Ancestral Fortitude/Inspiration play a major role in the Stomps. Improved Devotion Aura is great to have.
As consumables,
  • Food: go for Spicy Crawdads. 30 stamina? Yes please.
  • Flask: Flask of Fortification, or you prefer Mightly Restoration? :P
  • Elixirs: Elixir of Major Agility + Elixir of Major Defense are extremely superior to the Flask.
  • Potions: Ironshield Potions. Tons of them.
  • Scrolls: Scrolls of Protection are a plus. (note: If you got Hyjal exhalted tank ring, the proc will remove the scroll's buff). Scrolls of Agility are as well useful due to the increased Dodge.
  • Oil: Obviously Superior Wizard Oil

==================DEBUFFS==================
Well... this fight will often end up in eating the Debuff limit on the boss.
Even if you got a retribution paladin, consider only JoCr and JoW, don't bother with JoL. If there's only you, Improved JoCr is what you should use. Scorpid Sting must be up, also Insect Swarm if you happen to have a Boomkin. There will likely be Curse of Recklessness up, so you need a warrior with 5/5 Improved Demo shout or a warrior with 2/5 + a hunter with a owl pet. No need to say that Thunder Clap must have 100% uptime, no matter what tanks you are using.

==================ADVANCED TRAINING: TANKING IT==================
Very well, after all this preparation, time for the action.
The fight is quite easy to tank actually. Your job is generating threat, loads of it.
Ask to start the fight, because if you start, you can both pop wings on pull for already full DPS, and also if you start, the other tank will be tanking when you get to the Enrage, allowing the bubble+taunt kiting (see below).
The tank rotation is cycled around the stacks of meteor slash. The other tank will taunt about when you got 3 slashes. You will taunt back when he got 3 slashes and your debuffs are wearing off.
Make sure to always have something during stomps. If you got 2 avoidance trinkets + Nightmare Seeds, there will always be something to pop to help you surviving.
Also announce tank transitions, possibly with a countdown, so healers can actually prehot and precast on you already.
One final note regarding Burn: it can target the tanks. If you get Burn while tanking and Stomp has yet to come, don't worry, the Stomp will remove it. If however, you get it when not tanking, remove it, Burn tick + roflstomp can istagib you, and it's also additional work for healers which they could spend healing someone else; if you get it when tanking but Stomp has already come, wait for the other tank to taunt, then bubble out of it, again to save healers' mana.

==================ADVANCED TRAINING: THE STOMP==================
Let's examinate this element of the fight in detail.
  • Surviving it: As long as you got more than 21k HP, you will not die from the Stomp itself. However, living or not through the stomp is both a matter of healing and luck. If you don't avoid at least 1 hit every 3, you will likely die. Assuming you use Pocket Watch + Insigna + Seeds, your rotation will be like Watch -> Insigna -> Seed -> Watch -> Insigna -> Seed -> Watch. Actually the Watch will be ready a few seconds after the 3rd stomp, so you might "risk" and pop it later, but i don't recommend it. Consider using trinkets 3-4 seconds before the Stomp: if you die during a stomp, you die at the start of it, not at the end.
  • Taunting into a Stomp: Taunting into a stomp means you delay your taunt on purpose in order to get him right after he Stomps the other tank. This is doable for Stomp #5, and for the 3 stomps that follow. The 5th stomp would actually be your 3rd one: you either taunt and get stomped, or wait for stomp and istantly taunt. With some practice, you and the other tank can actually taunt into 3 or 4 stomps in a row, literally removing them from the equation. However, don't risk it if you are not sure.
  • The Roflstomp: Well, this is when you get Stomp+MH+OH+MH in a row and you don't avoid any of them. It happens, get used to it. Brutallus, Felmyst and Sacrolash got their own way to istagib even the best geared tank in the world, when it happens, wipe and go again.
  • Bubbletaunting the Stomp: Very risky, you can bubble, and taunt right when a stomp is coming, You'll get the stomp but he'll get back to the other tank... it's doable, but if you do it at wrong time, you'll get a 4th slash on your group, likely killing most of them. I don't recommend doing this

==================ADVANCED TRAINING: THREAT==================
Obviously, you also need to generate threat on this fight. There are a few things you can do to improve your threat generation:
  • Keep Holy Shield up: Seriously, Brutallus will EAT your Holy Shield. Most of the times he'll eat all the charges. Holy Shield is a major source of threat here, AND provides mitigation. No real reason to not keep this up 100% of the time, even if he doesn't crush.
  • Righteous Fury: Waste your mana. use Righteous Fury on every free GCD to dump mana. Spiritual Attunement is a big source of TPS on this fight, it can alone contribute for 3-500 TPS. Try to not be full mana everytime you can.
  • DPS while not tanking: Burn all the skills you can while not tanking: Avenger Shield, Holy Wrath, Consecration, Exorcism and Seal/Judgement. Try to do as much DPs as possible, but stop when you have around 1k mana left. That mana will be enough for Consecration + Holy Shield + Righteous Defense.
  • Taunt Resist: Well, 1% is not 0, we know that. If you or the other tank get a taunt resist, it's likely a wipe, but it's not necessarly a wipe. Try ninja BoPping the tank who got resisted: if the 4th Slash has not come yet and the other tank is 2nd in threat, he will get aggro and will have enough time for taunt CD to refresh. It will not work always, but well, it can turn a wipe into a kill.
  • Taunt and Burn: Be careful if you taunt when Burn is casted: your taunt will fail since it will "land" on the Burned person rather than on the other tank. Look at timers before taunting!


==================ADVANCED TRAINING: THE BUBBLETAUNT==================
This is a trick to buy 20-30 seconds into the Enrage. When the other tank taunts off you for the last time, you head 40 yds from him, behind melees. When 1 second is missing from Enrage, you taunt him, run away, and bubble as soon as he's almost in melee range. The other tank must in the while head to the opposite side of the area. When he's almost at the other tank, cancel your bubble and use a seal: if done properly, he'll bounce between you and the other tank for about 20 seconds, that's a LOT of time.

Well, that's all, WTB feedback if i missed something and if it's worth stickying :)
Last edited by Worldie on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:11 am

Advanced tanking:

- if you taunt around time the burn is casted, your taunt will fail, you can ask warrior to run to your position and wait for taunt CD as extra slashes are quite healable, but you will probably wipe
- if your taunt will fail for any other obscure reason, you can ask warrior to run to your position and wait for taunt CD as extra slashes are quite healable, but you will probably wipe

1% taunt resist - are you sure? So how much +hit it should be? 6% from items? Quite a lot if I don't want to wield Rising Tide.
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:20 am

Hum yes i forgot that part about burn taunt, adding it.

I can't tell honestly for resists, many people look like saying that Brutallus only has that 1% resist chance. I usually tank him with 0 hit, not even precision, and except for a odd evening when we got 5 taunt resist in a row (all turned into wipes), i never got a resist.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:16 am

It seems that if you target the other tank with your taunt, it will work even if Brut is targeting someone else for Burn. Also I think you'd need like 16% hit from current theory so he obviously has a reduced chance to resist taunts. I haven't seen him resist one yet with 0 hit, just Precision.
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Re: Tanking Brutallus: Gearing for it, and surviving it.

Postby Lave » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:19 am

Worldie wrote:This is a trick to buy 20-30 seconds into the Enrage. When the other tank taunts off you for the last time, you head 40 yds from him, behind melees. When 1 second is missing from Enrage, you taunt him, run away, and bubble as soon as he's almost in melee range. The other tank must in the while head to the opposite side of the area. When he's almost at the other tank, cancel your bubble and use a seal: if done properly, he'll bounce between you and the other tank for about 20 seconds, that's a LOT of time.


just activating a seal w/o bubble on will lead to aggro regain?
have you done it this way yourself? or is it theory
PsiVen wrote:I haven't seen him resist one yet with 0 hit, just Precision.

same here. 22 spellhit & 20 hit rating - not a single resist yet. obviously hitcapped per default
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Re: Tanking Brutallus: Gearing for it, and surviving it.

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:33 am

Lave wrote:
Worldie wrote:This is a trick to buy 20-30 seconds into the Enrage. When the other tank taunts off you for the last time, you head 40 yds from him, behind melees. When 1 second is missing from Enrage, you taunt him, run away, and bubble as soon as he's almost in melee range. The other tank must in the while head to the opposite side of the area. When he's almost at the other tank, cancel your bubble and use a seal: if done properly, he'll bounce between you and the other tank for about 20 seconds, that's a LOT of time.


just activating a seal w/o bubble on will lead to aggro regain?
have you done it this way yourself? or is it theory

Any action that makes you gain > 0 threat will give you aggro back when bubble dissipates. That might eventually be a SA gain if you got a HoT on you. I said to use a seal since it's a action you can do in any moment, but for what it matters you can even cast a bless, or exorcism him, or w/e. In my personal experience i always refreshed a seal to "gain back aggro after bubbling", but that doesn't mean it's the only way.
That's how immunities work usually.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:55 am

Mind if I steal your format for another guide?
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:03 am

Sure :P
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:10 am

Thank you. Definitely altering my approach to this fight now.

Also going 40/21! Woo!
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Postby Zx » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:30 am

Great guide. Going to post a link to it on the guild's website and hope that the GL will finally let me tank it.
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Postby Io.Draco » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:06 pm

would be nice to have a guide that convice your guild to take you over a feral
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:19 pm

No guide will change a guild's decision.

Even if i'm our main tank, took me 1 month and half to convince them we didn't need a ret paladin for Brut and i could tank him anyway :)

In fact, Druids are about advantaged on this fight. However, we're advantaged compared to warriors.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Io.Draco » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:57 pm

Worldie wrote:No guide will change a guild's decision.

Even if i'm our main tank, took me 1 month and half to convince them we didn't need a ret paladin for Brut and i could tank him anyway :)

In fact, Druids are about advantaged on this fight. However, we're advantaged compared to warriors.



Mhhh yes , but perhaps it could prove a strong good argument to convice em

Anyhow my guild has a full time ret pala so thats kinda out of the question for me , for you I assume you where the ret pala and that proved to be your biggest problem?

And pray tell how would a pala be advantaged over a warrior , shure we got a shitload MORE threat but they got thunderclap , shure a dps war can put it , but not without nerfing his dps and he will also not have improved TC wich is 10% diference
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:09 pm

A DPS warrior without improved TC and not capable of keeping up TC without a minimal loss of DPS doesn't deserve his spot in a Sunwell Guild.
And anyway, where did he put his talents to get to tier 3, did he take stun resistance? PvP that way ----> ?

And yes, for us i'm our ret paladin for Brutallus.

I had to use the threat cap to convince our GM that i could tank him better than both our druids and warriors (they are good, but seriously noone can compete with a 40/21 paladin on Brutallus). Our glaive rogue with 2700 DPS says he is not threat capped with me, and i'm happy with that.

A valid argument you can use is that you actually produce 6-700 DPS while tanking, about 2x any other tank. That + the bubbletaunt to buy time is a strong argument if you have troubles killing him before the enrage.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Io.Draco » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:12 pm

Worldie wrote:A DPS warrior without improved TC and not capable of keeping up TC without a minimal loss of DPS doesn't deserve his spot in a Sunwell Guild.
And anyway, where did he put his talents to get to tier 3, did he take stun resistance? PvP that way ----> ?

And yes, for us i'm our ret paladin for Brutallus.

I had to use the threat cap to convince our GM that i could tank him better than both our druids and warriors (they are good, but seriously noone can compete with a 40/21 paladin on Brutallus). Our glaive rogue with 2700 DPS says he is not threat capped with me, and i'm happy with that.

A valid argument you can use is that you actually produce 6-700 DPS while tanking, about 2x any other tank. That + the bubbletaunt to buy time is a strong argument if you have troubles killing him before the enrage.


mhhh I gues ill emphasise on the threat and dome by me then , but about palas vs wars , prot wars can do something else , aka keep sunders , shure dps wars can keep em , but the dps is something eh?

And ye my dps wars fail , they both got the stun and charm resistance LOL
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