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Brut WWS analysis, really need a hand here

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:50 am

If it works for ya thats all that matters. I guess we should focus less on the particulars of the healing and just focus on what the tank is doing.

Your damage intake seems on par with others I've seen tank Brutallus. As long as the trinkets/nightmare seeds are up for stomps you are doing everything you can and it should be good enough to kill him. Sometimes you are going to get exploded but that happens to every tank I believe.
Last edited by Havn on Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Morendin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:50 am

Worldie wrote:I don't agree with 1, trinkets and seed should be saved for stomps

Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.



1.5 second Flash for 2000
2.0 second HL9 for 4k+

add haste and the gap gets smaller, as the haste is calculated against the base cast time of 2.5 seconds for Holy Light
FoL kills tanks
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:50 am

Worldie wrote:We found that our good way to heal tanks is 1 quick-heal spammer and 2 big healers. Maybe works differently from others, but that 2-3k every 1.3 seconds is saving our tanks.


I'd be very concerned about the overall HPS being put out with a Paladin doing pure FoL....besides, with the size of the hits being taken, the odds that a single FoL is the difference between life and death is very small...being topped off is far more important.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:53 am

Dorvan wrote:
Worldie wrote:We found that our good way to heal tanks is 1 quick-heal spammer and 2 big healers. Maybe works differently from others, but that 2-3k every 1.3 seconds is saving our tanks.


I'd be very concerned about the overall HPS being put out with a Paladin doing pure FoL....besides, with the size of the hits being taken, the odds that a single FoL is the difference between life and death is very small...being topped off is far more important.

It makes the difference farly often on offhand hits.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:56 am

Worldie wrote:It makes the difference farly often on offhand hits.


You find yourself at around 1-2k often?
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:57 am

More often than i'd will.

He likes to mh-oh-mh in sequence me and other tanks.

But RNG quite hates us on Brutallus, wts 5 taunt resists in a row.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:59 am

Five? Wow.


We have yet to see a glaive after over half a year killing Illidan. RNG is evil.
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Postby Morendin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:03 am

you're comparing FoL to no FoL, not FoL to HL
here's why 1.3 second Flashes are so much worst than 1.8 second holy lights:
brut synchs his swing times after Meteor Slash, at 1.2 seconds for each double hit.
so at 1.3 seconds, you are NOT guarantying a Flash between each swing. since that's not possible, and I would argue a poor use of a dedicated healer even if they had enough haste and low enough ping to be CERTAIN they could get a flash in between each and every swing....that's still not enough HPS.

I could go through WWS and point out death log after death log that WOULDN'T be a death log if paladin X hadn't been using FoL.

It would be awfully nice if FoL had a purpose, but on Brutallis, it DOESN'T.
if you're assigned to a tank and you cast it, you are demanding that the other healers pick up a 1k+ HPS hole.

sorry...I'm sick of wiping to Flash of Lose(I have deathlogs of my assigned healers using it on me during stomp, which is just...aaargh)
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:17 am

Havn wrote:What trinkets do you run on this fight?


Man your gear is better then mine and I've tanked Brutallus since day one for my guild without a problem. If you are using ironshields and still dying without the stomp effect something is wrong elsewhere.



I'm currently running Pocketwatch + Shadowmoon Insignia for Brut.

I'm using Sundered Souls + Stawert Protector so that I can use Scrolls.

I'm spamming Iron Shields and was using a Flask of Fort with Crawdads and Wizard Oil.
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Postby Eender » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:19 am

Ok, I can post with some basis of knowledge of what I am talking about here. I have tanked every fight in Sunwell and I have healed ever fight but KJ. If I am not tanking Brut I am MT healing on Brut. With this being said I have been in every conceivable group makeup while doing this as well. For all you tanks arguing FoL is bad, you are right and you are wrong.

Depending on your group makeup as a healer on this fight (do you have a shaman/shadow priest?) and how many healers you have assigned to the tanks FoL is completely viable outside of stomps. With a decent amount of haste FoL is > 1k hps. That is very respectable and very efficient. While in stomp, tho, regardless of group makeup FoL is NEVER to be used. HL should be used exclusively during stomps. We personally have a priest Shield/PoM/Flash with the paladin HL bombing as well as another healer (sham usually) healing. Outside of stomp tho... FoL is fine.

As far as your gear and damage intake compared to the warrior goes... I have had similar problems b4. I remember one parse where the warrior had over 11% more avoided attacks than me. RNG is king on this fight. Sometimes u die. Warriors have more pure avoidance just from the gear setups that Blizz gives them. I personally just rely on my healers and go with the best setup imo to ensure good threat and best survivability. Max your armor/stam/pure avoidance and grab your bootstraps. Nothing else you can do. In this fight it truly is in your healers hands.

P.S. Your healing paladins should ALWAYS have Lights Grace up even if they are using FoL for spikes outside of stomps. I recommend cycling in HL7 for this. Also, have your paladin/s (top 2 direct healers) set up so that one casts and the other doesn't start casting till first healer is half way through their cast. Also, calling 5 sec warning for stomps if you aren't is very helpful for healers as they can make sure u are topped off b4 the stomp because I find lack of max HP b4 stomp is leading cause of gibs. This also allows one of the tank healers to que up a bomb heal to land as the stomp timer comes up.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:41 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Attempt5 wrote:21:44'27.921 Brutallus's Swing parried by Dragonzbane
21:44'27.921 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 4034 Physical damage
21:44'28.171 Dragonzbane gains 48 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'28.562 Morleck's Holy Light crit heals Dragonzbane for 8081
21:44'28.953 Dragonzbane gains 444 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'29.125 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 11761 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:44'29.125 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 4780 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:44'29.375 Vash's Flash of Light heals Dragonzbane for 2046
21:44'29.781 Dragonzbane gains 226 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'29.921 Animus's Lifebloom dot heals Dragonzbane for 998
21:44'30.140 Vash's Heal heals Dragonzbane for 212
21:44'30.156 Dragonzbane gains 110 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'30.281 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 5928 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:44'30.281 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 12526 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:44'30.515 Dragonzbane gains 23 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'30.562 Morleck's Holy Light heals Dragonzbane for 5409
21:44'30.968 Dragonzbane's Death misses Dragonzbane



In 3 seconds you took 5 hits, and only received one big heal.




Why am I getting hit so hard here as opposed to the other attempts?
11k or 12k vs 7K is a huge difference.
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:52 am

21:44'23.281 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 2758 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:44'23.281 Brutallus's Swing misses Dragonzbane
21:44'23.406 Brutallus's Stomp hits Dragonzbane for 6003 Physical damage

Stomp lasts 10 seconds. You were still stomped.
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Postby Morendin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:56 am

three things make him hit extra hard:
Demo wore off, he swings hard if he has CoR on him
no Ironshield
Stomp

any two of those would account for a 12000 mainhand, easy- CoR but no demo might do it all by itself, if I recall that death on pull correctly.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:06 am

On our last brutallus kill i was wondering how comes i took 100k more damage than the warrior.

Then realized i had taken a 100k enraged slash when i bubbletaunted.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:17 am

Worldie wrote:
Atreidies wrote:
Worldie wrote:Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.


No. FoL has no place in this fight but for early burns.


We found that our good way to heal tanks is 1 quick-heal spammer and 2 big healers. Maybe works differently from others, but that 2-3k every 1.3 seconds is saving our tanks.
It's about Synchronizing heals like I asid before. Our last week's attempts were funky because of that, and the moment one of the shaman decided to stop chain healing the tank to HW him, he didn't die again. Wasn't his specd heal, wasn't his best gearing heal, but it was the heal that did the trick exactly because of the timing difference.
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